Knob and tube

[wblakey]

An article in our local newspaper gave the thumbs up for knob and tube...

"There appears to be a wave of fear throughout the insurance industry when it comes to knob and tube wiring," says BCAA (British Columbia Automobile Association) Insurance product manager Brooke Hanson in a news release. "Companies are asking their customers to fork out thousands of dollars in re-wiring unnecessarily, simply because they have not taken the time to learn about the real issues."

"Knob and tube wiring is not inherently hazardous as long as it's properly maintained. If the wiring has been tampered with or if wire insulation is brittle or cracked, it should be restored."

Comments?

I don't know about anyone else but if I see knob and tube I call it a major defect and refer the buyer to an electrician for further evaluation.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by wblakey

"Knob and tube wiring is not inherently hazardous as long as it's properly maintained. If the wiring has been tampered with or if wire insulation is brittle or cracked, it should be restored."

True statement. . .

[Russel Ray]

While I concur with Jeff, I know of several insurance companies that will not provide insurance on homes with K&T wiring. Many of those who will insure homes with K&T wiring charge a higher premium. So in many cases here it is not up to the homeowner, it's up to what the insurance company wants in order to provide insurance at reasonably priced premiums. So I call it a major defect only insofar as insurance is concerned, providing that I don't see other issues (insulation on top of the K&T, improper splicing, etc.).

[Paul W. Abernathy]

While the K & T itself if properly maintained is generally fine......what is not fine is the design of the circuits that involve K & T which allow in many cases a fused neutral, a shared neutral and oversized fuses which do not protect the conductor size....other than that......its fine...

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

While the K & T itself if properly maintained is generally fine......what is not fine is the design of the circuits that involve K & T which allow in many cases a fused neutral, a shared neutral and oversized fuses which do not protect the conductor size....other than that......its fine...

Any K and T I have seen should be disconnected .
How can you tell the condition inside the wall .
I have not found any I would leave and continue to use .
Roy Cooke
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[Paul W. Abernathy]

Roy.......tell that to the homeowner who will not be willing to pay $ 5,000 to $ 7,000 to upgrade it.......BUT actually i was refering to the statement that was made about the jacket if maintained....I see plenty in the wall that we gut that looks fine.......the damage generally comes from the exposed K & T...not the hidden K &T.

My other statements are the factual issues with K & T, it was simply not designed to handle todays needs and it is prone to overloading....

Don't get me wrong...I dislike ANY of the K & T I see.....but again the NEC accepts it....and i work to the NEC when I am doing electrical work...but I DO make my suggestions....thehehe...

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Roy.......tell that to the homeowner who will not be willing to pay $ 5,000 to $ 7,000 to upgrade it.......BUT actually i was refering to the statement that was made about the jacket if maintained....I see plenty in the wall that we gut that looks fine.......the damage generally comes from the exposed K & T...not the hidden K &T.

My other statements are the factual issues with K & T, it was simply not designed to handle todays needs and it is prone to overloading....

Don't get me wrong...I dislike ANY of the K & T I see.....but again the NEC accepts it....and i work to the NEC when I am doing electrical work...but I DO make my suggestions....thehehe...

I tell them That in Most cases they will not be able to get Home owners Insurance and to please check and make sure you have insurance . I also recommend they consider immediate upgrading to moder wiring as some day when the go to seel they might have more dificulty if they do not.
In My area you can no longer get a new Insurance policy with active K&T.
I have heard of too many horror stories of a couple spending there last dime to get into a home and find out they can not get insurance Saw the tears and iy hurts me to see them cry.
Roy Cooke

[bsumpter]

I do not agree, and really, one could say the same thing regarding Romex. I have seen many instances of stressed installations, ripped insulation, and poor connections.

A number of homes I inspect have K&T,and if I suspect an issue, I call it out. But I feel a blanket statement like that is misleading.

[Jae Williams]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Roy.......tell that to the homeowner who will not be willing to pay $ 5,000 to $ 7,000 to upgrade it.......

Don't get me wrong...I dislike ANY of the K & T I see.....but again the NEC accepts it....and i work to the NEC when I am doing electrical work...but I DO make my suggestions....thehehe...

Actually, I do tell a homebuyer that wll be expensive to up-grade. And that there is reason why many insurance companies will refuse coverage. The NEC is one thing, but the insurance company isn't concerned about code--they're concern about the possilbe cash outlay.

It's true that properly maintained K&T is not unsafe, but if the insurance co. says "no", it will win that argument everytime.

Recommend contacting the insurer first and be ready to consider an upgrade.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

BUT...you missed the POINT......I dont play Insurance Agent......and I do not try to play one on TV either....lol....

The issue is tell them about the K & T and let THEM take that information to the Insurance Company....not my PLACE to play their role....

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

I did an inspection on a pristine home 800 ± sq ft home .
It had newer Gas Furnace Gas cook stove Gas dryer.
A single 40 +lady was buying it for her self.
Now this house was 30± years old and was close to perfect .
It was all Copper and had a Breaker 60 amp service .
She could not get insurance from any one .
They all said it needed to be upgraded to a 100 amp service .
As per usual the insurance companies always win.

Roy Cooke

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rcooke

They all said it needed to be upgraded to a 100 amp service .

100-amp service is another deciding factor in getting insurance here in San Diego, along with K&T wiring, lead or galvanized water supply pipes, homes built prior to 1950 (premiums are higher), fuses instead of breakers, wood roof, and probably some others that I'm forgetting at the moment.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lets face it....the Insurance Company can demand anything they would like...I know of a fact they would not insure an apartment complex me and my brother were going to buy simply because the apartments had fuse panels......they looked fine......but they said I was bias...since I was an electrician...anyway they would not insure them......so we just walked away as it was not worth the hassle....

Long story short....still owed by the same people...5 years later....

[tneyedli1]

Originally Posted by wblakey

An article in our local newspaper gave the thumbs up for knob and tube...

"There appears to be a wave of fear throughout the insurance industry when it comes to knob and tube wiring," says BCAA (British Columbia Automobile Association) Insurance product manager Brooke Hanson in a news release. "Companies are asking their customers to fork out thousands of dollars in re-wiring unnecessarily, simply because they have not taken the time to learn about the real issues."

"Knob and tube wiring is not inherently hazardous as long as it's properly maintained. If the wiring has been tampered with or if wire insulation is brittle or cracked, it should be restored."

Comments?

I don't know about anyone else but if I see knob and tube I call it a major defect and refer the buyer to an electrician for further evaluation.

Remember, knob and tube may be at least 65 years old. The cambric type of fabric may now be very frirable. Further evaluation by a qualified residential electrician familiar with knob and tube wiring may be the only true way to approach the insurance issue.
A home that old is most likely to have more than one electrical update. So be careful how it is worded, and more important understood by the prospective purchaser.

[tneyedli1]

Originally Posted by wblakey

An article in our local newspaper gave the thumbs up for knob and tube...

"There appears to be a wave of fear throughout the insurance industry when it comes to knob and tube wiring," says BCAA (British Columbia Automobile Association) Insurance product manager Brooke Hanson in a news release. "Companies are asking their customers to fork out thousands of dollars in re-wiring unnecessarily, simply because they have not taken the time to learn about the real issues."

"Knob and tube wiring is not inherently hazardous as long as it's properly maintained. If the wiring has been tampered with or if wire insulation is brittle or cracked, it should be restored."

Comments?

I don't know about anyone else but if I see knob and tube I call it a major defect and refer the buyer to an electrician for further evaluation.

Remember, knob and tube may be at least 65 years old. The cambric type of fabric may now be very frirable. Further evaluation by a qualified residential electrician familiar with knob and tube wiring may be the only true way to approach the insurance issue.
A home that old is most likely to have more than one electrical update. So be careful how it is worded, and more important understood by the prospective purchaser.