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  #1  
Old 2/3/07, 6:21 PM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

Hey Guys,

I get alot of calls and people ask me, if it says CL200 on the meter itself does that mean the service is 200A?

if any of you have seen my video on sizing a service for home inspectors you will notice I say of the items to THROW out the meter enclosure and meter itself would be the best one to TOSS...

Attached is a meter itself, notice the CL200 on the meter but I can assure you it was CLEARLY feeding a 100A panel so that kinda ends that myth so I probably wont get anymore calls on that one...

Remember that CL200 can handle the 100A without a problem...as well as a 200A panel.....BUT do you see CL200 meters in 400A meter enclosures...I have.....will take a picture of one and post it next week....so you can see what POCO can do.
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lets-kill-cl200-myth-right-now-dsc01568.jpg  



Paul Abernathy
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Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of any association, organization or affiliation. The voices in my head are mine and mine alone.
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  #2  
Old 2/3/07, 6:34 PM
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Marc D. Shunk Marc D. Shunk is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

That's even an AMR meter too. Cool. Person must have had a mean dog.
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  #3  
Old 2/3/07, 6:34 PM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

OH.....I forgot to add....it was in a ROUND style enclosure...go figure !



Paul Abernathy
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  #4  
Old 2/3/07, 6:35 PM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

lol....they are all that way down here now Marc......POCO is lazy..they read em as they run down the street...



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  #5  
Old 2/3/07, 11:05 PM
Speedy Petey Speedy Petey is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

Quote:
Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...
I've been saying this for a long time!
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  #6  
Old 2/4/07, 12:02 AM
Greg Fretwell Greg Fretwell is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

We still have the old style meters. They always have some coed running around doing the reading. Nobody complains about a cute girl running through your yard.
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  #7  
Old 2/4/07, 12:39 AM
waksell waksell is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pabernathy
if any of you have seen my video on sizing a service for home inspectors you will notice
What video? Where can I see this video?
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  #8  
Old 2/4/07, 2:51 AM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
I've been saying this for a long time!
lol we all have Speedy......sometimes pictures are worth a 1000 words...



Paul Abernathy
Electrical Industry Associate


Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of any association, organization or affiliation. The voices in my head are mine and mine alone.
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  #9  
Old 2/4/07, 2:51 AM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

Wesley,

In the video section of my website www.TheElectricalGuru.com web site



Paul Abernathy
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  #10  
Old 2/4/07, 6:25 AM
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David P. Valley David P. Valley is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

Thanks for the info. Paul. I remember learning this some time ago.

CL 200 indicates they are rated for up to a 200 Amp service. The CL200 rating may not limit these to 200 amps. There have been reports finding larger services with CL200 meter bases.

Home Inspectors will occasionally find a "CL10" meter which is a transformer-rated meter for large houses with larger electrical systems or two separate main panels.

Some older meters have other designations such as "15 Amps" on their face. This was their test rating. These meters are only usable on systems up to 100 Amps.

Some older meters were also designated as "30 Amps" on their face and these are compatible with 200 Amp services. For example, one may occasionally find an older house with an upgraded 200 Amp service that still has an old 15 Amp meter plugged into a new meter base. This particular meter is not really compatible with the system and should be replaced.
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  #11  
Old 2/4/07, 12:22 PM
waksell waksell is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

OK, I need clarification.

The video says;
"That the meter is the weakest thing your are going to use. That would be the one you would probably through out if you could find four other good determining factors."

Does this mean that if all four other factors are 200 amp, but the meter can suggests 125 amp, that you can through out, or ignore the 125 amp meter can and size the service at 200 amp?

Seems to me that if we are going by the weakest link method, the meter can would be the weakest link.
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  #12  
Old 2/4/07, 1:14 PM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

You are playing OVER analysis..not sure if you are doing so to funny or just dont understand.
The video clearly says that OF the items looking for in determining the service the meter itself is the one that should be TOSSED if you find the other determining factors.

Are you telling me as a HI you would PUT the size of the meter enclosure as the main sizing factor on your report...I sure HOPE NOT. While 100% of the time we can't actually SEE the rating of the enclosure we have to ASSUME using sizing and varibles that leave us GUESSING...some 100A square cans are actually 125A Cans......and some round 60A cans can indeed in some areas of the country be approved by the POCO for 100A cans.....the image I show above was a round one which the POCO said was approved for 100A......so because it is round and I can't actually SEE the listing in the enclosure because it is sealed.....and because it had a freakin CL200 in it.....it appears to be a 60A can with a 200A meter in it on a 100A panel......so I freakin THROW that one out...and use the factors I can see......Conductor Size, Enclosure Rating if possible, Main OCPD size and in this case the Mast conductors size...to determine it was indeed a 100A panel.

We have shown MANY times that CL200 means nothing really.....and I have seen them in smaller cans...you have to use judgement otherwise I would have to do a freaking video 10 minutes long to explain all the possible ways....

You use the meter enclosure as a helping factor...and it MAY be a helpful determining factor.......but we are saying it MAY be used...or it may not be used.......depends on each unique situation and IF you had to throw ONE factor out...the meter enclosure or meter would be that one...because we have seen 200A services but the POCO has approved a smaller meter can.....and visa versa.......so it MAY way on your judgement BUT it is the less concerning issue....

Now if you are seeing an unauthorized service change....where they did not resize the service drop conductors or mast conductors then you know something MAY be up....but thats on an individual basis only.



Paul Abernathy
Electrical Industry Associate


Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of any association, organization or affiliation. The voices in my head are mine and mine alone.

Last edited by pabernathy; 2/4/07 at 1:20 PM..
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  #13  
Old 2/4/07, 1:23 PM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

The video was made before I was accepted as a Director so it had to be brief...so I did not go into things like size of the mast to aid in sizing and so on...simply STICK to the basics and avoid making it overly complicated.

The meter enclosure itself tells us something to AID in determining the size but if I could not tell the OCPD, the Panel Rating, the SE Conductors size and size of conductors at the drip loop connection point......then HELL I would not put anything on the report but " Can Not Determine based on the information avaliable " and defer it.......we want no GUESSING HERE!

Sorry you did not find it helpful, one of the other electricians here may be able to produce a more defining video for everyone...I am not very good at video's



Paul Abernathy
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Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of any association, organization or affiliation. The voices in my head are mine and mine alone.
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  #14  
Old 2/4/07, 2:00 PM
Greg Fretwell Greg Fretwell is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

I think the size of the meter can is the least indicative factor in the size of the service. I will try to track down a picture of my house in MD that had an originally installed 200a service using the small can you folks call 100a. When I moved the service on a renovation PEPCO said that can was fine and reused it. At that time the PoCo provided meter bases. Not sure what the policy is up there now. FPL seems to be mixed. My wife has to provide hers on new construction but FPL gave me one when I did my upgrade. I don't know if that was policy or just a favor. I was there on IBM business.
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  #15  
Old 2/4/07, 2:04 PM
Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Let's KILL the CL200 myth right now...:)

I hear ya Greg....exactly.....

It may assist in confirmation once you have verified the other factors but on it's own...to many varibles but I had to include it because it seems EVERYONE does....

Basically I have seen ALOT of the same things you just said so when I say it is the weakest thing to consider....I am not saying it is part of the weakest link conclussion...

I think we hammered that freakin thing to death........YIKES...IBM Business....are you an old computer hacker/designer greg...



Paul Abernathy
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