Light Switch Near Shower

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

This thread has turned to bull$h*t.

The ghost of JT haunts it.

Boys and girls, please learn to play in the sandbox.

I happen to agree with Paul. There is nothing to prohibit it, but personally I would recommend GFCI protection for this switch. There's a clear distinction from flagging something as a true defect, and making a recommended improvement.

All defects are repairable. The art comes from the Client's impression of how manageable the problem is. The configuration in question, from whatever side of the argument you are on, is simple; install a GFCO and move on.

Some inspectors talk for the sake of talking.

And, Mike L was correct with regard to luminaires in the vicinty of a tub. As I recall, this was an old debate on this board, where there was an associated photo showing a hot tub with metal wall fixtures above the ledge. Tedesco and others debated it for days. In the end, the code interpretation was limited to protection from filaments.

Problem with code references is that our opinions really do not count. The ONLY opinion that counts is that of the AHJ.

Actually, Jim Bushart is the AHJ for his city. Why not ask Jim for his spin?

Yes, the ghost does haunt it...as I said many times it will always haunt it as long as the cheer leaders are around.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

Originally Posted by fcarrio

More FATAL mistakes from "Instructors"

An experienced electrician in the U.S. mine was showing other workers how to use a cable fault tester. This device, also known as a "thumper," is capable of producing a high-energy pulse at voltages up to 10,000 V. During his demonstration, the man inadvertently touched a part of the test unit that was energized. Unfortunately, he was not wearing safety gloves suitable for high voltages.

• The man received a fatal electrical shock.

Another incident was reported in Alberta, where a young, healthy worker was seriously injured when his co-workers, in an act of horseplay, applied the leads of a megohmeter to his hands. Workers in the electrical industry sometimes use this method of "zapping" the hands of a worker - usually a first-year apprentice - as an initiation joke.

• This dangerous act is not worth the risk.

A megohmeter or "meggar" is an instrument used to measure the resistance of electrical insulation. It generates high voltages with a small current. During this incident, the electricity travelled from one hand of the worker to the other, passing through his heart.

• The worker was hospitalized and treated for symptoms similar to those of a heart attack victim.

He was discharged from the hospital, but continued to have cardiac problems and was later re-admitted. His doctor confirmed that the condition was the result of the small electric current that had travelled through his heart.

• Follow-up with a cardiologist confirmed that a small current of a high voltage can result in heart problems.

Under occupational health and safety law, employers have a legal responsibility to ensure the health and safety of all workers, and workers are equally accountable for their own safety, and for the safety of their co-workers.

• This means taking all necessary precautions against workplace hazards.

For anyone working with electrical devices, the US Department of Labour's Mine Safety and Health Administration recommends these best practices:

• No one should operate a high-voltage testing device except a qualified electrician, thoroughly trained in the use of that specific model of tester.
• The operator must follow the manufacturer's instructions and keep the owner's manual with the device at all times.
• When operating an electrical testing device such as a "thumper," always wear suitable high-voltage electrical gloves.
• Before turning on an electrical testing unit, connect the provided frame-grounding cord/connectors to a proper grounding medium.
• All workers should be informed that instruments that test and measure electricity are capable of storing and delivering a lethal electrical charge.
• Store such devices in a secured location, accessible only to qualified, trained electricians.

No Paul it is you the self proclaimed "electrical guru/codeoligstwho needs to get over himself

The bottom line ..... is to keep me out of your posts and I will keep you out of mine!

Wow....I am guessing a formal complaint shoud be filed to ESOP over your harrasement of me Frank.....Joe F...are you watching. He is slandering me...man...I am sooooo upset...lol.....oh and Carrio...I have forgotten more about electrical than you will EVER know.....old man....lol..If you shut up you just may learn something.

And you can CUT and PASTE that.......if you wish.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Are you really that ignorant Frank......the post was on the ASK NACHI area and it was directly..from the online text as it 99.9 of the NEC comments that are posted...no need to add anything to it.......still got that hard on for me I see....let it go old man........let it go.

You should have given credit to the author and or provided a link to the website where you obtained this information instead of doing an "cut and paste" of this material!

Plagiarism is an ugly thing to see especially from someone who is a self proclaimed "electrical guru"!

[Michael Larson]

Shut up Frank.

We are all tired of your antics.

Man up.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

I wonder how a person that was electrocuted wrote that story. Electrocution is death from an electric shock. So how could a dead person write that?

Did they go through a medium?
I am sure he learned from an instructor who "stood in the shower and flipped the light switch on and off 100 times"

or..... the instructor who sat on the toilet with one hand filled with water while the other hand flipped the light switch on and off!

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Shut up Frank.

We are all tired of your antics.

Man up.

Poor, poor Mikey!

Some of you guys sure like to hide behind bushes and take potshots at people and then you get all upset when people fire back!

Why are you surprised when they do?

I see that you are constantly fighting with people all over this message board and on several different threads ...... So the bottom line is..... take your own advice!

HAVE A NICE DAY

[Michael Larson]

Call me up moron. You have my phone number.

[Nick Gromicko]

British Standard Codes.
Lighting circuits
Lampholders which are within 2.5 metres of a fixed bath or shower shall be
constructed of, or shrouded in,insulating material,and have an insulating
shroud. Alternatively, luminaires that are totally enclosed may be used.
601-11
Lighting switches shall be mounted so that they are inaccessible to a person
using a fixed bath or shower. The only part of the switch that is allowed to
be accessible is the insulating cord of a cord-operated switch complying
with BS3676,and switches operated by mechanical actuators with insulating
linkages, or insulated switches which form part of a circuit derived from a
SELV safety source with a nominal voltage not exceeding 12A r.m.s. a.c.or
d.c.
601-08
The outer contact of Edison screw or single centre bayonet cap type
lampholders in TN and TT systems shall be connected to the neutral
conductor.
553-03-04
Ceiling roses shall not be used in circuits exceeding 250V and not have more
than one outgoing flexible cord,unless designed for multiple pendants.
553-04-02, 553-04-03
Every switch used to control discharge lighting shall be designed in
accordance with BS3676 and or BS5518 and shall be suitable for the discharge
lighting. Alternatively and as a general guide its nominal rating shall be
twice the total steady current for the circuit.
553-04-01,INF
Bathrooms
In general socket outlets are not allowed in a room containing a fixed bath
or shower, unless the socket is a shaver socket manufactured to BS3535.
Where such a socket is provided, its earth terminal must be connected to the
protective conductor of the final circuit supplying the shaver socket. The
shaver socket can be independent or part of a luminaire.
601-09, 601-10-02
A socket fed from a SELV source can be installed in a room containing a
fixed bath or shower, providing the voltage does not exceed 12V a.c.or
d.c.,and the source of the SELV circuit is out of reach of a person using
the bath or shower, and the socket outlet is fully insulated against direct
contact.
601-10-01, 601-03-01
Switches installed in a room containing a fixed bath or shower must be out
of reach of a person using the bath or shower unless:
a) the switch is operated by an insulating cord,
b) the switch is operated by mechanical actuators with insulated components,
c) the supply to the switch is from a SELV source not exceeding 12V r.m.s.
a.c.or d.c., and the switch is insulated,
d) the switch and controls comply with BS3456 Section 3.9 (1979) for
instantaneous water heaters,
601-08-01
Electrical equipment is not allowed to be installed in the interior of a
bath or shower basin.
601-02-01
Where an instantaneous water heater having an uninsulated heating element is
in contact with the water used,the metal parts of the water heater that are
also in contact with the water shall be electrically connected to the metal
water pipe through which the water supply to the water heater is provided
and the water pipe shall also be independently connected with earth in
addition to the protective conductor connection.
554-05-02
The electrical connection to the instantaneous water heater shall be through
a double pole switch,the cables being directly connected to the water heater
and not through a plug and socket. The switch shall be out of reach of the
person using the instantaneous water heater, unless it complies with the
requirements given in Regulation 601-08-01 above.
544-05-03
Where the instantaneous shower heater is mounted over a shower tray which is
made of concrete in direct contact with earth, the metallic reinforcement of
the concrete must be bonded to the earth terminal in the instantaneous water
heater.
Where the instantaneous shower heater is mounted over a metallic bath, or a
bath with a metallic waste pipe, the earth terminal in the instantaneous
water heater should be bonded to the hot and cold water pipes at the taps
and also the bath and,or waste pipe.
601-04-02

[Michael Larson]

Changes nothing Nick.

BTW-Their voltage is 230 VAC.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol..I already told Nick that in Colorado...lol......13 pages of this nonsense...lol

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

lol..I already told Nick that in Colorado...lol......13 pages of this nonsense...lol

It is a farce Paul and I am sorry that some felt it necessary to impune your integrity.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by mlarson

... I am sorry that some felt it necessary to impune your integrity.

That is sad.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

You should have given credit to the author and or provided a link to the website where you obtained this information instead of doing an "cut and paste" of this material!

Plagiarism is an ugly thing to see especially from someone who is a self proclaimed "electrical guru"!

Strong words from a washed up old man. Plagiarism is when you PUBLISH something and take credit for it you whack nut....Man you are a lost cause. You need to read more indepth about the article....also it was not in the NACHi forum...it was a blurb to a NON-Member.

So Frank......lets have the MEMBERS weigh in on who does more for them...YOU or ME........you simply have an agenda....No your buddy can't come back....but if you cry enough it could happen...lol

Oh..not self proclaimed...lets see..have you been an EXPERT on any mike holts videos?...are you listed as an Electrical Expert with many court systems?........do you even own a Masters Electricians License..?

You are a "Pass a Few ICC exams" wannabe......so have you passed the ICC Electrical Plans Examiner Exam...?.....have you ever been the FIRST in a state to get a state approved CEU course up and running and required for licenes renewal.....Probably NOT.......you "retired" wannabe....

And thats MR. Electrical Guru to you....wannabe

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by lkage

That is sad.

It's ok Larry...I am always a target an I dont mind. He just has a hard on for me since his buddy was kicked off and I was not. It's all good.....Im here for the members...not Mr. Carrio.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

or..... the instructor who sat on the toilet with one hand filled with water while the other hand flipped the light switch on and off!

You know why people dont like you Frank...it is because you have no sense of humor and are simply deranged....lol...in fact you GRASP at straws old man...lol

Only a person who knows NOTHING about electricity...which you know nothing about...would understand how FUNNY that statement I made was...I am sure NICK got it...he was their......you did not because you have such a hard on for me.....you would do anything to get your buddy back....lol.....sad...sad...sad...and YOU are on ESOP.....give me a break.