Light Switch Near Shower

[Marcel Gratton]

In my opinion, if you're standing in the bathtub or shower and can reach a light switch then it is not safe...period!

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

Does it look like this light switch is within the 36-inch "wet zone" or within 36-inches from the outside edge of the shower?

CHAPTER 39
DEVICES AND LUMINARIES SECTION E3901 SWITCHES
E3901.7 Wet locations.
A switch .... or circuit breaker located in a wet location or outside of a building shall be enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet. Switches...... shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.
{IE manufactured "watertight/water resistant" specifically for the installed unit.}

How did you come up with 36 inches outside of 'the wet-zone' as 'the wetzone' itself?

Jeff

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by mgratton

In my opinion, if you're standing in the bathtub or shower and can reach a light switch then it is not safe...period!

Agreed!
That was why the "36-inch" rule was devised!

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

How did you come up with 36 inches outside of 'the wet-zone' as 'the wetzone' itself?

Jeff

Look at the diagram. The “wet zone” is anything within 36-inches from either edge of the tub or… 8-feet above the tub!
These areas are considered “wet zones” because they are “subject to shower spray”.

E3903.10 Bathtub and shower areas.
Cord-connected luminaries, chain-, cable-, or cord-suspended-luminaries, lighting track, pendants, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall not have any parts located within a zone measured 3 feet (914 mm) horizontally and 8 feet (2438 mm) vertically from the top of a bathtub rim or shower stall threshold.

This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower. Luminaries located in this zone shall be listed for damp locations and where subject to shower spray, shall be listed for wet locations.

CHAPTER 39
DEVICES AND LUMINARIES SECTION E3901 SWITCHES
E3901.7 Wet locations.
A switch .... or circuit breaker located in a wet location or outside of a building shall be enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet. Switches...... shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

FROM THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE.

2008 National Electrical Code
ARTICLE 404-SWITCHES
404.4 Damp or Wet Locations.
A surface mounted switch or circuit breaker in a damp or wet location shall be enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet that shall comply with 312.2.
A flush mounted switchor circuit breaker in a damp or wet location shall be equipped with a weatherproof cover. Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.
{NOTE: According to both the NEC and the IRC a damp/wet location is in the area within 36 inches of either edge of a tub sink or basin and/or an area that is subject to "spray". The "wet/damp area also extends 8 feet vertically.}

Luminary Locations
410 10.10
{A.} Wet and Damp Locations
Luminaries installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed such that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All luminaries installed in wet locations shall be marked, "suitable for wet locations". All luminaries installed in damp locations shall be marked "suitable for wet locations" or suitable for damp locations.

{D.} Bath Tub and Shower Areas.
No parts or cord connected luminaries, chain, cable, or cord suspended luminaries, lighting track, pendants, or ceiling suspended {paddle} fans shall be located within the zone measured 900 mm {3 feet} horizontally and 2.5 m {8 feet} vertically from the top of the bathtub when I'm or shower stall threshold.
This zone is all encompassing and includes a space directly over the tub or shower stall. Luminaries located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m {8 feet vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations were subject to shower spray.

PLEASE NOTE:
BOTH THE NEC AND THE IRC HAVE THE SAME DEFINITION FOR THE "WET ZONE".

I hope this has been of some help to my fellow NACHI members
{and guests}

[Jim Port]

Frank,

I now see how you derived your definition of the wet zone. However, you cannot use the zone defined for lighting fixtures and apply it to switches. There is no Code support for your opinion.

Someone, Marcel, I think said he doesn't feel safe if you can touch something while standing in the tub or shower. Heck some bathrooms would need to have everything installed outside if that were the case.

If I were to try and discern a reason for the difference it would be because the fixtures have the potential to expose you to live parts whereas a switch would not.

[Michael Larson]

NOTE: According to both the NEC and the IRC a damp/wet location is in the area within 36 inches of either edge of a tub sink or basin and/or an area that is subject to "spray". The "wet/damp area also extends 8 feet vertically.

Frank,
where is this from?

What about Mike Hot's take on this issue?

Q&A with Mike Holt

Q25. Do switches for bathroom/shower lights have to be GFCI protected? Is there any distance that the switch must be from the bathtub or shower space?

A25. No. The NEC only requires that a switch not be installed within the wet location of a tub or shower spaces, unless the switch is part of a listed tub or shower assembly

See this diagram from Mike Holt.

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

Someone, Marcel, I think said he doesn't feel safe if you can touch something while standing in the tub or shower. Heck some bathrooms would need to have everything installed outside if that were the case.

I've seen light switch installed outside the bathroom exactly for that reason and a GFI receptacle beside the sink...

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

I also scanned the code sections posted by you and did not see any mention of the 3' distance regarding switches.

Cuz it ain't there

[Marcel Gratton]

Ontario, Canada Only

Rule 30-322(3) says the light switch must not be located within reach of a person in a shower or bathtub. Appendix B for Rule 30-322(3), page 470 in the Code, defines out of reach as 39.4in. (1m). This means that switches controlling these loads may be inside the bathroom provided they are at least 39.4in from the bathtub or shower stall.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Ontario, Canada Only

Rule 30-322(3) says the light switch must not be located within reach of a person in a shower or bathtub. Appendix B for Rule 30-322(3), page 470 in the Code, defines out of reach as 39.4in. (1m). This means that switches controlling these loads may be inside the bathroom provided they are at least 39.4in from the bathtub or shower stall.

That's great but Vince doesn't live in Canada.

Maybe Frank will come back and explain how he came to his conclusion which now appears to be unfounded.

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by mlarson

That's great but Vince doesn't live in Canada.

Michael and all,

Common sense should always prevail regardless of where you live me think...

Safely yours,

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Michael and all,

Common sense should always prevail regardless of where you live me think...

Safely yours,

Report it however you would like but there is no code support for it in the U.S. and I prefer my face without egg.

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Report it however you would like but there is no code support for it in the U.S. and I prefer my face without egg.

Michael,

To the best of my knowledge a home inspection is not a *code* inspection, so no code support is required. With that said, knowledge and safey should always prevail.

I sleep well at night, do you...

Cheers,

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Michael,

To the best of my knowledge a home inspection is not a *code* inspection, so no code support is required. With that said, knowledge and safey should always prevail.

I sleep well at night, do you...

Cheers,

I sleep fine and there is no reason to get into a p****ing match.

To say we are not "code" inspectors is true but I think you will admit that we all rely on code on a regular basis even if we don't cite chapter and verse.

The codes are about safety and I hope we all know that.

You don't need my permission to report it how ever you wish but if you are challenged, be ready to pay the unnecessary expense of the rework.