Light Switch Near Shower

[Paul W. Abernathy]

It is not a wet location...period.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

2008 NEC -Definitions
Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and
not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such
locations include partially protected locations under canopies,
marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations,
and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,
such as some basements, some barns, and some coldstorage
warehouses.

Location, Dry.

A location not normally subject to dampness

or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily
subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a
building under construction.

Location, Wet.

Installations underground or in concrete
slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations
subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such
as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed
to weather.

Many try to twist the NEC into something it is not.....the NEC is clear on the application. Now, if an HI would like to call this out and wonder why they would get ribbing from an electrician then well....my message is not heard.

[Michael Larson]

Thank you Paul.

[Peter W. Bennett]

canada yes.

[dbelmont]

I think the issue should be is the switch reachable by somebody standing in 3 inches of water in the shower. If you wanted something objective then a 36" from the tub edge would cover the vast majority of situations I would think. I generally use my own reach but that's about 38". But I can't reference that (at least in Code Check).

From what I know about electricity I wouldn't think handling switches while bathing would be a good idea. So unless the electric switch has been clearly designed and labeled to be located that close then I would comment on it as a potential safety issue.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Lets see...the switch is non-conductive, the screws usually have a non-conductive coating on them....terminals are insulated within the device....hmmm...I guess I dont see the safety hazard...sorry.

Put it in a location with constant saturation then moisture gets into the switch itself, and to the termination points and electricity will conduct on water, poorly but will conduct and you then touch it...whamo......but if you have constant saturation on the space outside of the shower then while we are concerned with safety we need to teach them how to take a shower also and how to by a proper shower curtain.

Also we can't fix stupid, why on earth would someone ENTER the shower to turn on the light....would they not ( maybe it is just me ) turn on the light prior to entering the shower? and once out of the shower with no chance of device saturation just flip an insulated switch...would I be concerned...nope not me but then again maybe it is just me.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by dbelmont

So unless the electric switch has been clearly designed and labeled to be located that close then I would comment on it as a potential safety issue.

So the National Electrical Code says it's ok, but if it isn't labeled by the manufacturer, you will say it's NOT ok. "Interesting" position and one that's becoming all too common recently.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Lets see...the switch is non-conductive, the screws usually have a non-conductive coating on them....terminals are insulated within the device....hmmm...I guess I dont see the safety hazard...sorry.

Put it in a location with constant saturation then moisture gets into the switch itself, and to the termination points and electricity will conduct on water, poorly but will conduct and you then touch it...whamo......but if you have constant saturation on the space outside of the shower then while we are concerned with safety we need to teach them how to take a shower also and how to by a proper shower curtain.

Also we can't fix stupid, why on earth would someone ENTER the shower to turn on the light....would they not ( maybe it is just me ) turn on the light prior to entering the shower? and once out of the shower with no chance of device saturation just flip an insulated switch...would I be concerned...nope not me but then again maybe it is just me.

Dammit! I hate it when people use logic and common sense.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

Originally Posted by jpope

So the National Electrical Code says it's ok, but if it isn't labled by the manufacturer, you will say it's NOT ok. "Interesting" position and one that's becoming all too common recently.

Brother! ain't that the truth!

[Paul W. Abernathy]

The position of the switch and labeling has to do with it being WITHIN the shower itself and nothing to do with the original question or post. If shower is a manufactured shower kit and it has a built in switch and light, changes are they want it GFCI protected and the NEC clearly says if the switch is build into the shower as part of the kit......no problem as it would be designed to not create a hazard.

404.4 Damp orWet Locations.

A surface-mounted switch
or circuit breaker in a damp or wet location shall be enclosed
in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet that shall
comply with 312.2. A flush-mounted switch or circuit
breaker in a damp or wet location shall be equipped with a
weatherproof cover. Switches shall not be installed within
wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as
part of a listed tub or shower assembly.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

I understand Paul. My point is that we shouldn't "make things up" when reporting or commenting on certain issues. I find it "interesting" that some inspectors feel it's appropriate. . .

[Paul W. Abernathy]

I gotcha Jeff....my post was not towards your post. It was towards the listing statement of showers with built in switches....nothing more fella...

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dedwards

Dammit! I hate it when people use logic and common sense.

Yes, please stop it will only confuse people.

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Lets see...the switch is non-conductive, the screws usually have a non-conductive coating on them....terminals are insulated within the device....hmmm...I guess I dont see the safety hazard...sorry.

Put it in a location with constant saturation then moisture gets into the switch itself, and to the termination points and electricity will conduct on water, poorly but will conduct and you then touch it...whamo......but if you have constant saturation on the space outside of the shower then while we are concerned with safety we need to teach them how to take a shower also and how to by a proper shower curtain.

Also we can't fix stupid, why on earth would someone ENTER the shower to turn on the light....would they not ( maybe it is just me ) turn on the light prior to entering the shower? and once out of the shower with no chance of device saturation just flip an insulated switch...would I be concerned...nope not me but then again maybe it is just me.

Paul,

When bathrooms get painted, the switch cover usually gets removed and the non-conductive coating on those metal screws holding the cover sometimes peel's off exposing bare metal.

As for your comment about someone entering a shower to turn on the light ...how about someone turning on the ceiling heat lamp while leaving the jacuzzi or adjusting the heater's thermostat while in the tub...

In my opinion, the Canadian Electrical rule limiting the location of switch (s) in bathrooms is potentialy life saving.

Regards,

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Yes,,and i could win the lotto if i played, we could fall out of the sky in a plane and I still have a chance to be president. You have painted pictures of limited speculation. There is no data showing an increased risk of death from a light switch near a tub/shower space. If HI's wish to call out probable cause the be ready to face the outcome is all i am saying. If the covers are off and someone takes a shower and touches a screw which should not have current on them anyway...then you cant fix stupid....As for the hot tub question, again insulated switch and screws are the majority...not the minority.

Please feel free to report as everyone deems fit....I am only answering questions as asked and I base mine responses on the minimum safety standards.