Light Switch Near Shower

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by mgratton

Mr. *Codeologist*,

I am dissappointed in your opinions regarding the potential life threatening safety issue being discussed here.

Regards,

Still waiting for posting of the incidents of death or injury from this "potential life threatening safety issue".

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by mlarson

[/u] [/color][/size][/font][/font]Frank,

Nothing there about switches. Nothing at all.

Do you still think switches within 3 ft of a shower or tub are in violation of the NEC?

Because of this!


CHAPTER 39
DEVICES AND LUMINARIES SECTION E3901 SWITCHES
E3901.7 Wet locations.
A switch.... or circuit breaker located in a wet location or outside of a building shall be enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet. Switches...... shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.
{IE manufactured "watertight/water resistant" specifically for the installed unit.}

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by dbelmont

I think the issue should be is the switch reachable by somebody standing in 3 inches of water in the shower.
I see several scenarios where this is feasible. Someone could be sitting in a tub/Jacuzzi in the room could be "steamed up" and they need to turn on the vent/fan.
Or.... the room and or the water could become cold and they needed to turn on the overhead heater.
So the idea that someone sitting or standing in a tub of water could reach out to flip on a switch within reaching distance/36 inches of the outside edge of the tub or shower is feasible.
I am sure that sends electricity has been invented that there were more than enough accidents to implement and justify the 36 inch rule!

If you wanted something objective then a 36" from the tub edge would cover the vast majority of situations I would think. I generally use my own reach but that's about 38". But I can't reference that (at least in Code Check).




From what I know about electricity I wouldn't think handling switches while bathing would be a good idea.

• So unless the electric switch has been clearly designed and labeled to be located that close then I would comment on it as a potential safety issue.

Gee thats funny...... that is what the Code says!

The switch has to be designed for a "wet location" and labeled as such!

Hmmmm.... I wonder if some of our members missed this in Rocket Science school


It seems that in this thread good old common sense has flown out the window!

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

Gee thats funny...... that is what the Code says!

It's not funny Frank. You are miss leading fellow inspectors.

The 3 ft by 8 ft bathtub/shower luminaire zone does not apply to recessed or surface mounted luminaires, switches, or receptacles.

Here it is in black, white and color with pretty diagrams and everything needed to put this to rest.

SUBJECT: Bath tubs Lights, Switches and Receptacles.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by mlarson

It's not funny Frank. You are miss leading fellow inspectors.

The 3 ft by 8 ft bathtub/shower luminaire zone does not apply to recessed or surface mounted luminaires, switches, or receptacles.

Here is is with pretty diagrams and everything needed to put this to rest.

SUBJECT: Bath tubs Lights, Switches and Receptacles.

Thank you for shedding the proper light on the subject.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

No matter how you spin it Frank, or how much color you add to it, your interpretation is inaccurate and just plain wrong. The code is clear, regardless of your own idea of "common sense."

[Nick Gromicko]

In hospitals, the switch has to be 5 feet away.
In Ontario, the switch has to be 1 meter away.

Why, if there is no risk posed?

I think I know why.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gromicko

In hospitals, the switch has to be 5 feet away.
In Ontario, the switch has to be 1 meter away.

Why, if there is no risk posed?

I think I know why.

Easy.

In hospitals you are dealing with patients that often have I.V. lines in providing a direct path way for current through the heart with much lower body impedance due to the lack of skin which acts as a partial insulator and limiting the current flow through the circuit.

In Canada all I can say is BLAME CANADA

Does anyone have any evidence of injury or death from having a light swithc within 3 ft of a shower or tub?

[Nick Gromicko]

You are getting closer.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gromicko

You are getting closer.

No Nick I hit the bullseye.

After over two decades working in a hospital environment, I have no ambiguity on this issue.

But if you have something to offer please do.

[Nick Gromicko]

People in residential shower stalls in Ontario don't have I.V.s. But they do have something else that you'll see in almost every hospital bathtub.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gromicko

People in residential shower stalls in Ontario don't have I.V.s. But they do have something else that you'll see in almost every hospital bathtub.

Your adding to the confusion Nick.

This thread was started by someone from the U.S.

Canadian requirements and reasoning though interesting have nothing to do with answering the original question.

cough it up

[Nick Gromicko]

How about a little hint:

Everyone on this thread talks about making contact with the light switch with their hand. I don't see much risk there. But there is another way that would pose a risk.

[Michael Larson]

A hand held shower head and hose?

Ever hear of a shower curtain or door?

[Blaine Wiley]

Originally Posted by gromicko

How about a little hint:

Everyone on this thread talks about making contact with the light switch with their hand. I don't see much risk there. But there is another way that would pose a risk.

It is water, but it doesn't really matter. As we in this industry go off on our own whims and beliefs about what should and shouldn't be done and/or required, we will continue to open ourselves up to ridicule from those who come behind us tor correct the conditions we enumerate.

Regardless of our opinion on code, whether it is correct, absolute or the minimum standard, it is the standard that each locality utilizes as their accepted building practice. If anyone truly believes something is a hazard, then the local building office or AHJ should be lobbied to change a particular practice.

If you think it is unsafe to have a light switch in the location depicted in the original post of this thread, then by all means write it up.

We can's stop stupid, and it is evident daily.