Light Switch Near Shower

[Jim Port]

I think I would have to go over someones head and appeal a decision to install weatherproof switch cover where none are needed. The code simply doesn't support this as a wet area. Yes, errant waterspray could hit the plate or the toggle handle. This still does not mean that the water would be touching live parts. Heck I could spray my GFI receptacle that is several feet away from the shower if I wanted to.

I used the following search or Google "electrocutions due to switches near showers" and the only results were about military shower electrocutions. There were several that stated a desire for a separtion distance but no code was stated to back up this wish. I stopped after 8 pages of hits. Seems like this is only a perceived issue, not a real issue.

If this had been a cause of actual incidents I am sure the code making panels would have addressed this. It was only a few years ago where a girl got disembowled by a pool suction drain. The Code started requiring a emergency stop, probably in the next available code cycle.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by mlarson

I for one will surprised if it gets changed to what CANADA has without supporting evidence of death or injury.

The is full of surprises!

Have a nice day!

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

I think I would have to go over someones head and appeal a decision to install weatherproof switch cover where none are needed. The code simply doesn't support this as a wet area. Yes, errant waterspray could hit the plate or the toggle handle. This still does not mean that the water would be touching live parts. Heck I could spray my GFI receptacle that is several feet away from the shower if I wanted to.

I used the following search or Google "electrocutions due to switches near showers" and the only results were about military shower electrocutions. There were several that stated a desire for a separtion distance but no code was stated to back up this wish. I stopped after 8 pages of hits. Seems like this is only a perceived issue, not a real issue.

If this had been a cause of actual incidents I am sure the code making panels would have addressed this. It was only a few years ago where a girl got disembowled by a pool suction drain.
It is a crying shame that this little girl was disemboweled because of an oversight! If you will continue your research you will see that this is not an isolated incident.
When this story first came out there were several references to past injuries due to pool suction drains!

The Code started requiring a emergency stop, probably in the next available code cycle.

Jim,
I have been in this industry since 1972. During this time frame I have had more electrical safety classes than I can remember.
I have taken classes in Texas, California, Colorado, Tennessee, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, and Vermont.
Some of the instructors used actual photographs of people who have been electrocuted while being in or stepping out of the shower and/or bathtub.
The point is.... not every photograph and/or technical article is on the Internet.

That being said .. I am sure that if you devote enough time to the subject you will be able to find technical articles and/or photographs that pertain to this subject matter.


Good luck!

[Jim Port]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

Some of the instructors used actual photographs of people who have been electrocuted while being in or stepping out of the shower and/or bathtub.
The point is.... not every photograph and/or technical article is on the Internet.

What were the causes of those electrocutions? Were there problems like poor or incorrect grounding and bonding? How many dealt with appliances used too close to the tub, like a radio that falls into the tub? How many are a direct result of someone touching a switch?

I do not what this to seem argumentative. I am just looking for support for your statements.

[Vince Santos]

Good article but I think it talks much about what's been hashed over here.

Lights, Receptacles and Switches in Shower Areas

http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?p=93

April 25, 2006

We have all struggled with the National Electrical Code (NEC) requirements for placement of lights, receptacles and switches in bathtub and shower areas. Can receptacles be installed near the bathtub or shower edge? Are light fixtures installed in or near these areas required to be listed for wet, damp or dry locations? Are we allowed to install a switch in this area?
Well struggle no more, the 2005 NEC has been revised to address these issues.
Where dealing with a shower or a tub location, one of the biggest installation problems has been determining if a light fixture will be subjected to condensation or water intrusion. Will a shower head cause water to enter the light fixture, thereby shorting it out or causing an electrocution? What effect will condensation have on the light fixture? Will mist or steam penetrate its energized parts?
Section 410.4(D) has been revised for the 2005 NEC to more clearly address these problems and provides some relief in designing, installing and inspecting these areas. Adding a single sentence at the end of this section provides clarity where dealing with the location and type of luminaire for a shower or bathtub location.
The added text is as follows: “Luminaires (light fixtures) located in this zone shall be listed for damp locations, or listed for wet locations where subject to shower spray.”
The only problem with this particular change in the 2005 NEC involves the term “zone,” as used in this new last sentence. Zone is the area measured three feet horizontally and eight feet vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold.
In small bathrooms, measuring three feet horizontally from the edge of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold can often include wall-mounted light fixtures located directly above an adjacent sink. Since most bathrooms are drywall or Sheetrock with a textured coat of drywall mud and paint, any excessive moisture in the bathroom would cause deterioration of the wall surface long before moisture would affect light fixtures mounted in the zone but outside the actual “footprint” of the bathtub or shower. Consult with your local electrical inspector for an interpretation on this issue.
This new requirement was inserted into the 2005 NEC primarily to cover wall-mounted wall sconce light fixtures, but this section also covers recessed, as well as ceiling mounted, light fixtures mounted directly above this zone.
A wall-mounted light fixture in this zone must be listed for a damp or wet location, depending on the application. Recessed incandescent light fixtures can be provided with a trim that makes the recessed can and trim suitable for a damp or wet location.
Light fixtures mounted above the eight-foot area covered by the zone are clearly not affected by mist, steam or direct spray. A decision by the authority having jurisdiction (your local electrical inspector) and the installer must be made in addressing whether a light fixture will be in the direct spray of the shower head itself, but even this should be fairly evident based on the type of construction used in this specific area. If the wall is built of water-resistant material of any kind, then the light fixture should be a wet-location light fixture since the installer is anticipating excessive moisture.
Receptacles installed in a wet or damp location must comply with Section 408.8 dealing with wet or damp locations. Section 408.8(D) within this section does not permit receptacles to be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall. Rather than referring to the bathtub or shower zone, as was done for light fixtures, this section addresses the footprint of the bathtub or shower stall.
Receptacles installed adjacent to a bathtub or a shower stall would not be a violation of this section. For example, garden atriums located adjacent to bathtubs and showers are common in some larger homes, hotels and similar structures. Receptacles are often added in these small garden areas to supply fountains, waterfalls and lighting.
Some garden atriums even have sprinkler systems installed for the plants. These receptacles are clearly in a wet or damp location, even though not located within or over the bathtub or shower area and, therefore, must have an enclosure and cover that is weatherproof with the attachment plug inserted or removed or, in other words, a weatherproof box with a bubble cover.
Similar to receptacles, switches installed in these areas are required to comply with Section 404.4’s last sentence that states as follows: “Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces, unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.”
As designers and installers of bathtub and shower areas continue to create new and dynamic designs for bathrooms, the NEC will continue to apply necessary safety requirements for these areas.
Do you need assistance with your electrical wiring project? Please visit my DIY Electrical Wiring Help from a Master Electrician page. Where I provide electrical wiring tips, expert electrical advice, answers to your electrical questions and electrical consulting & design services over the phone, via instant messenger or via email.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by vsantos

Good article but I think it talks much about what's been hashed over here.

Lights, Receptacles and Switches in Shower Areas

http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?p=93

April 25, 2006

We have all struggled with the National Electrical Code (NEC) requirements for placement of lights, receptacles and switches in bathtub and shower areas. Can receptacles be installed near the bathtub or shower edge? Are light fixtures installed in or near these areas required to be listed for wet, damp or dry locations? Are we allowed to install a switch in this area?
Well struggle no more, the 2005 NEC has been revised to address these issues.

Where dealing with a shower or a tub location, one of the biggest installation problems has been determining if a light fixture will be subjected to condensation or water intrusion. Will a shower head cause water to enter the light fixture, thereby shorting it out or causing an electrocution? What effect will condensation have on the light fixture? Will mist or steam penetrate its energized parts?

Section 410.4(D) has been revised for the 2005 NEC to more clearly address these problems and provides some relief in designing, installing and inspecting these areas. Adding a single sentence at the end of this section provides clarity where dealing with the location and type of luminaire for a shower or bathtub location.

The added text is as follows: “Luminaires (light fixtures) located in this zone shall be listed for damp locations, or listed for wet locations where subject to shower spray.”

The only problem with this particular change in the 2005 NEC involves the term “zone,” as used in this new last sentence. Zone is the area measured three feet horizontally and eight feet vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold.




In small bathrooms, measuring three feet horizontally from the edge of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold can often include wall-mounted light fixtures located directly above an adjacent sink. Since most bathrooms are drywall or Sheetrock with a textured coat of drywall mud and paint, any excessive moisture in the bathroom would cause deterioration of the wall surface long before moisture would affect light fixtures mounted in the zone but outside the actual “footprint” of the bathtub or shower.

• Consult with your local electrical inspector for an interpretation on this issue.

This new requirement was inserted into the 2005 NEC primarily to cover wall-mounted wall sconce light fixtures, but this section also covers recessed, as well as ceiling mounted, light fixtures mounted directly above this zone.

A wall-mounted light fixture in this zone must be listed for a damp or wet location, depending on the application. Recessed incandescent light fixtures can be provided with a trim that makes the recessed can and trim suitable for a damp or wet location.

Light fixtures mounted above the eight-foot area covered by the zone are clearly not affected by mist, steam or direct spray. A decision by the authority having jurisdiction (your local electrical inspector) and the installer must be made in addressing whether a light fixture will be in the direct spray of the shower head itself, but even this should be fairly evident based on the type of construction used in this specific area.

If the wall is built of water-resistant material of any kind, then the light fixture should be a wet-location light fixture since the installer is anticipating excessive moisture.

Receptacles installed in a wet or damp location must comply with Section 408.8 dealing with wet or damp locations.

Section 408.8(D) within this section does not permit receptacles to be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall. Rather than referring to the bathtub or shower zone, as was done for light fixtures, this section addresses the footprint of the bathtub or shower stall.

Receptacles installed adjacent to a bathtub or a shower stall would not be a violation of this section. For example, garden atriums located adjacent to bathtubs and showers are common in some larger homes, hotels and similar structures. Receptacles are often added in these small garden areas to supply fountains, waterfalls and lighting.

Some garden atriums even have sprinkler systems installed for the plants. These receptacles are clearly in a wet or damp location, even though not located within or over the bathtub or shower area and, therefore, must have an enclosure and cover that is weatherproof with the attachment plug inserted or removed or, in other words, a weatherproof box with a bubble cover.

Similar to receptacles, switches installed in these areas are required to comply with Section 404.4’s last sentence that states as follows: “Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces, unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.”

As designers and installers of bathtub and shower areas continue to create new and dynamic designs for bathrooms, the NEC will continue to apply necessary safety requirements for these areas.
Do you need assistance with your electrical wiring project? Please visit my DIY Electrical Wiring Help from a Master Electrician page. Where I provide electrical wiring tips, expert electrical advice, answers to your electrical questions and electrical consulting & design services over the phone, via instant messenger or via email.

Thanks Vince!
He made my point!
Receptacles installed in a wet or damp location must comply with Section 408.8 dealing with wet or damp locations. Section 408.8(D) within this section does not permit receptacles to be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall. Rather than referring to the bathtub or shower zone, as was done for light fixtures, this section addresses the footprint of the bathtub or shower stall.

Receptacles installed adjacent to a bathtub or a shower stall would not be a violation of this section.

For example, garden atriums located adjacent to bathtubs and showers are common in some larger homes, hotels and similar structures.
Receptacles are often added in these small garden areas to supply fountains, waterfalls and lighting.

Some garden atriums even have sprinkler systems installed for the plants.

These receptacles are clearly in a wet or damp location, even though not located within or over the bathtub or shower area and, therefore, must have an enclosure and cover that is weatherproof with the attachment plug inserted or removed or, in other words, a weatherproof box with a bubble cover.

Similar to receptacles, switches installed in these areas
{it is my interpretation that these areas means the zone within 36 inches from the outside edge of the tub/ water source}are required to comply with Section 404.4’s last sentence that states as follows: “Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces, unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.”
So if a switch is located within 36 inches of one of these "plant sprinklers" then it should be rated water tight/waterproof.

As designers and installers of bathtub and shower areas continue to create new and dynamic designs for bathrooms, the NEC will continue to apply necessary safety requirements for these areas.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Now you're trying to compare the switches to receptacles?

[Jim Port]

That post talks about switches and receptacles getting sprayed by a sprinkler system.

The area outside a shower stall is not a wet area.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

The area outside a shower stall is not a wet area.

...

[Michael Larson]

Good luck guys.

Frank will be along shortly.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Simply Amazing......heck why not just not do the inspection at all and just write up " Entire Dwelling is a Safety Hazard" and save the time spent doing the inspection. If HI's would like to write that issue on a switch in a dry location....so be it but don't look for support from people who know better.....simply not worth the write up and I think people are REACHING if they do.

I can tell you this...if you wrote that up and the buyer used it to GET OUT of a purchase then I would have you in court, and being that I am a legal expert on the subject I would RIP you apart......no basis, no foundation and no documented issues to spawn a concern.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

OH...and BTW......I not only attend those seminars also...I write many of them and never has this been a issue in a safety conversation regarding a switch in a dry location. ( Again it is NOT a wet location, it may be subject to some spray but that does not make it a wet location or even a damp location for that fact...)

[Andrew Cox]

At risk of re-hashing... just inspected a house with this tub. The bathroom is part of an addition 2 years ago. The work permit was never closed out, and no final AHJ inspection. So the buyer is faced with working out the expired building permit. I was concerned about the proximity of the wall switch which controls the overhead light.
The light fixture is appropriate, but the wall switch was my concern. It is 6" from the lip of the tub, 3 feet up. After reading this thread, I tend to believe it is OK, but I plan to include a caution of some kind about using the switch while in the tub. Thoughts?

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by jpope

Now you're trying to compare the switches to receptacles?

Jeff,
I know that you like to make fun of me when I use a colored font to make sure sure that the HI's get the point but.... your comment is a PRIME example of why I do.

I guess that you missed my point!

Here read it again.

Quote:
These receptacles are clearly in a wet or damp location, even though not located within or over the bathtub or shower area and, therefore, must have an enclosure and cover that is weatherproof with the attachment plug inserted or removed or, in other words, a weatherproof box with a bubble cover.

Similar to receptacles, switches installed in these areas
End Quote:

It is my interpretation that these areas means the zone within 36 inches from the outside ed{ge of the tub/ water source.

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by acox

At risk of re-hashing... just inspected a house with this tub. The bathroom is part of an addition 2 years ago. The work permit was never closed out, and no final AHJ inspection. So the buyer is faced with working out the expired building permit. I was concerned about the proximity of the wall switch which controls the overhead light.
The light fixture is appropriate, but the wall switch was my concern. It is 6" from the lip of the tub, 3 feet up. After reading this thread, I tend to believe it is OK, but I plan to include a caution of some kind about using the switch while in the tub. Thoughts?

Don't be afraid to call this out!

It is within 36-inches from the outside edge of the tub.
As a Code Compliance Inspector / AHJ per my authority under article 90.4 I would make sure that it was waterproof / watertight.

Also you say that it controls and “overhead” light.

• The light MUST be 8-feet or higher over the tub.

PS:
All of the crying and moaning on this thread is over a $10.00 to $20.00 dollar switch!


2008 NEC Handbook:
90.4 Enforcement.
This Code is intended to be suitable for mandatory application by governmental bodies that exercise legal jurisdiction over electrical installations, including signaling and communications systems, and for use by insurance inspectors.

The authority having jurisdiction for enforcement of the Code has the responsibility for making interpretations of the rules, for deciding on the approval of equipment and materials, and for granting the special permission contemplated in a number of the rules.

Some localities do not adopt the NEC, but even in those localities, installations that comply with the current Code are prima facie evidence that the electrical installation is safe.

Section 90.4 advises that all materials and equipment used under the requirements of the Code are subject to the approval of the authority having jurisdiction.

The text of 90.7, 110.2, and 110.3, along with the definitions of the terms approved, identified (as applied to equipment), labeled, and listed, is intended to provide a basis for the authority having jurisdiction to make the judgments that fall within that particular area of responsibility.

The phrase “including signaling and communication systems” emphasizes that, indeed, these systems are also subject to enforcement.



By special permission, the authority having jurisdiction may waive specific requirements in this Code or permit alternative methods where it is assured that equivalent objectives can be achieved by establishing and maintaining effective safety.

• The authority having jurisdiction is responsible for interpreting the specific rules of the Code.

This paragraph empowers the authority having jurisdiction, using special permission (written consent), to permit alternative methods where specific rules are not established in the Code. For example, the authority having jurisdiction may waive specific requirements in industrial occupancies, research and testing laboratories, and other occupancies where the specific type of installation is not covered in the Code.

This Code may require new products, constructions, or materials that may not yet be available at the time the Code is adopted. In such event, the authority having jurisdiction may permit the use of the products, constructions, or materials that comply with the most recent previous edition of this Code adopted by the jurisdiction.

This final paragraph of 90.4 permits the authority having jurisdiction to waive a new Code requirement during the interim period between acceptance of a new edition of the NEC and the availability of a new product, construction, or material redesigned to comply with the increased safety required by the latest edition.

Establishing a viable future effective date in each section of the NEC is difficult because the time needed to change existing products and standards, as well as to develop new materials and test methods, usually is not known at the time the latest edition of the Code is adopted.