How many wires did you say were allowed?

[jtedesco1]

Hint: How many did you say?



With five different wiring methods installed in this box, including two electrical metallic tubings, two rigid nonmetallic conduits, one nonmetallic sheathed cable (Type NM-B), two surface metal raceways, and two Type AC cables, there is just not enough free space in this 4 inch x 1 1/4 inch square box. If we considered conductors sized at 12 AWG for each circuit, with two wires in each raceway, and cable, including an equipment grounding conductor in the RNMC and NM-B cable, we would end up with a total of 18 of the 12 AWG conductors, plus one additional for the three equipment grounding conductors, for a grand total of 19 conductors. As per Table 314.16(A), the maximum number of 12 AWG conductors allowed in this size metal box is only eight!

[Bruce A. King]

It takes a lot of talent to get all those wires and connections in that box!
Too bad they didn't have more talent.....

was the cover bulging out?

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by bking

It takes a lot of talent to get all those wires and connections in that box!
Too bad they didn't have more talent.....

was the cover bulging out?

Nay, they probably will add more wires, or add some extension rings. If they do, then the problem gets worse because of the 3 inch rule that calls for all wires to capable of extending from the edge of the last ring or rings with no splices.

2005 NEC Reference:

"300.14 Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points

At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaires (fixtures) or devices. Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in any dimension, each conductor shall be
long enough to extend at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening.

Exception: Conductors that are not spliced or terminated at the outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to comply with 300.14."

[Jae Williams]

Heck, there's three unused knock-outs...that means three more wires can fit in there...

[Jae Williams]

...and if the knock-outs are 3/4 inch, let's run a couple of 8/3 NM into it as well...

[jtedesco1]

Call the Posse out! I think this is a job for the NACHI Electrical Posse!

Where's that Sheriff when you need him?

http://www.nachi.org/forum/users/pabernathy/

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol....Joe YOU just HATE when I use my little tag lines....lol......You dont need the POSSE on this one....heck an Apprentice could get this one right...

[Richard L. Bennett]

Oh my -- I took the cover off and found a box full of cat #3 phone wire and they had used old runs because it was easy. I am in real trouble now because I flagged it as a problem and it was not

Oh well live and learn - Next time I pull the cover plate - Crap I will probably get in trouble because that is probably invasive like taking the screws out of an attic hatch or the screws off of the panel on an electrical box. -- Just can't win

Is it invasive because we walked into the home??

rlb

[William J. Decker]

"...plus one additional for the three equipment grounding conductors..."

If you run EMT and/or rigid there is no need for grounding conductors. The conduit is the ground conductor.

Guess we can get more wires in the box in the Chicago area .

BTW: What is the NEC's rule on number of hots / neutrals in a given conduit (by size of conduit, I would presume).

[brian winkle]

Joe, they could add a box extension to ease things up, or maybe two.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by brian winkle

Joe, they could add a box extension to ease things up, or maybe two.

See this: http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost....30&postcount=3

I included this scenario.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by wdecker

"...plus one additional for the three equipment grounding conductors..."

If you run EMT and/or rigid there is no need for grounding conductors. The conduit is the ground conductor.

Guess we can get more wires in the box in the Chicago area .

BTW: What is the NEC's rule on number of hots / neutrals in a given conduit (by size of conduit, I would presume).

True, but the EGC's were not in the EMT.

[jtedesco1]

Hey Sheriff Paul, come on play along, I was referring to this installation.

http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost....35&postcount=5

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol.....you lost me Fella......I am not part of the Sheriff's Posse....I am a FOUNDING follower of the "INSANE" clown POSSE' on my brothers side....

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Are you looking for what I would advise the person to do.....honestly...I would tell them to take that freakin blank off.....add a 4" x 2 1/8" square extention ring and HOPE the wires meet the requirement...or they can wirenut and pigtail to get the length...they wont count in the calculation anyway... and replace the cover and be happy........about all I would tell them.