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Electrical Inspections Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes receptacles, panels, wiring, etc.

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  #1  
Old 11/30/07, 11:19 AM
Frank L. Bartlo Frank L. Bartlo is offline
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Default Mismatched circuit breakers?

I inspected a house that had a main panel that looked OK, except that a few of the circuit breakers (indicated) appeared that they may have been of the wrong type of the panel -- though they were well seated, and appeared to fit very well in it.

Is there any problem with this, and if so, what is it?
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  #2  
Old 11/30/07, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

Panel make/model?

Breakers make/model?

tom
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Old 11/30/07, 11:52 AM
Frank L. Bartlo Frank L. Bartlo is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

Yeah, I forgot to mention that the panel is a common Siemens panel, for which QP breakers are recommended. The pertinent info on the different looking circuit breakers was unreadable, but they did appear to have been installed with the original job.
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Old 11/30/07, 11:54 AM
Frank L. Bartlo Frank L. Bartlo is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

And the photo quality is limited by sizing constraints for posting. I could get it a little better, but that would not add anything to the value of the pic.
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Old 11/30/07, 1:42 PM
Blaine Wiley Blaine Wiley is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

The breakers installed in the panel should be the ones listed by the manufacturer, otherwise it is incorrect in most instances.



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  #6  
Old 11/30/07, 5:25 PM
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Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

unless of course they are " Classified " breakers made by Eaton.....they have UL Approved replacement breakers for many panels on the market today...be aware guys that you will see alot more of the " Classified " versions and they meet UL for the enclosures to which they are in......they are 3rd party tested and approved by UL......and no they do not void any manufactures warranty...Magnesson -Moss Act prohibits manufactures from making that claim about warranty being voided......



Paul W. Abernathy
Manager, Electrical Codes & Standards
Encore Wire Corporation

“Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think.” -RIP Dad, Love You!....10/10/2014

Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of Encore Wire, or other associations, organizations or affiliations.
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Old 11/30/07, 5:27 PM
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

However...in the case of the ones in your photo...which I can't see....it would be a problem unless the enclosure lists them....otherwise just because they fit does not make them approved....

Thats the difference with " Classified " breakers....they have been formally approved for many older styles like ITE, Gould, Crouse-Hinds, T & B, Square D ( both QO and Hom )....and a few others....

Those in the picture are not classifieds.........



Paul W. Abernathy
Manager, Electrical Codes & Standards
Encore Wire Corporation

“Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think.” -RIP Dad, Love You!....10/10/2014

Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of Encore Wire, or other associations, organizations or affiliations.
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Old 11/30/07, 5:28 PM
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Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

Bye Bye......just got back from Jacksonville, FL doing a seminar...and I am off to Danville for another one.....later guys...see ya Monday.



Paul W. Abernathy
Manager, Electrical Codes & Standards
Encore Wire Corporation

“Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think.” -RIP Dad, Love You!....10/10/2014

Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of Encore Wire, or other associations, organizations or affiliations.
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Old 11/30/07, 6:30 PM
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Joe Funderburk, CMI Joe Funderburk, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

Here's what I often say: "The panel is equipped with breakers manufactured by a company other than the panel manufacturer. Panel manufactures warn that the use of other types of breakers "voids the warranty, may void the UL listing, and could result in property loss and personal injury." An evaluation of the acceptability of the breakers is recommended."

If you read the label inside the panel, that's the language often used.



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Old 12/1/07, 9:12 PM
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Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

hey......back from Danville.....wanted to chime in again on this. If a manufacture ( like Square D) tells someone even on a sticker that using a breaker other than theirs violates a warranty....they are in BIG trouble due to the Magnesson-Moss Act......if the replacement breaker is 3rd party tested and approved it will NOT void the warranty...This is against the law to make that statement...."Classified" breakers are UL listed........they are approved for the replacement in many enclosures.......but ONLY breakers that are 3rd party tested.....



Paul W. Abernathy
Manager, Electrical Codes & Standards
Encore Wire Corporation

“Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think.” -RIP Dad, Love You!....10/10/2014

Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of Encore Wire, or other associations, organizations or affiliations.
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Old 12/1/07, 11:54 PM
jtedesco1 jtedesco1 is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfunderburk
Here's what I often say: "The panel is equipped with breakers manufactured by a company other than the panel manufacturer. Panel manufactures warn that the use of other types of breakers "voids the warranty, may void the UL listing, and could result in property loss and personal injury." An evaluation of the acceptability of the breakers is recommended."

If you read the label inside the panel, that's the language often used.
Joe, I agree and here's why:


See the UL Panelboards Marking Guide

FIELD INSTALLED UNITS OR EQUIPMENT


38. A panelboard to which a unit, such as a circuit breaker, switch, or the like, may be added in the field is
required to be marked to identify the units that can be added. Units made by different manufacturers or of
a different style are not identical in all details and therefore may not be interchangeable.

Plug-in clips and blades must be matched if poor connections and overheating are to be avoided.
Additionally, over-surface and through-air electrical spacings, between live parts of opposite polarity and
to grounded metal, often depend on the proper mating of units and the bases into which they are plugged


or bolted.

Circuit Breakers Marking Guide
Commercial Cooking Equipment Marking & Application Guide
Dampers Marking Guide
Dead-front Switchboards Marking Guide
Electrical Heating and Cooling Equipment Marking Guide
Luminaires Marking Guide
Panelboards Marking Guide
Swimming Pools and Spa Marking Guide
Wire and Cable Marking Guide

http://www.ul.com/regulators/2007USWhiteBookFinal.pdf

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Old 12/2/07, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pabernathy
unless of course they are " Classified " breakers made by Eaton.....they have UL Approved replacement breakers for many panels on the market today...be aware guys that you will see alot more of the " Classified " versions and they meet UL for the enclosures to which they are in......they are 3rd party tested and approved by UL......and no they do not void any manufactures warranty...Magnesson -Moss Act prohibits manufactures from making that claim about warranty being voided......
That why I love ya. Great info.



Gary Porter

GLP's Home and Mold Inspections
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Serving Orlando, Kissimmee, Winter Park, Winter Springs, Oviedo, Titusville, Celebration, Harmony, Avalon, Windermere, Deltona, Debary, Sanford
Orange County, Seminole County, Volusia County, Osceola County

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Old 12/2/07, 11:46 AM
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Paul W. Abernathy, CMI Paul W. Abernathy, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act prevents manufacturers from making warranties contingent upon the use of their replacement parts, as long as the third-party part is safe. Since UL has proven safety, the panelboard manufacturer’s warranty is still effective when using CL or CHQ breakers.



  • Designed and tested to be mechanically and electrically interchangeable with circuit breakers manufactured by General Electric, Thomas & Betts, ITE/Siemens, Murray, Crouse-Hinds, and Square D.
  • Tested in numerous panels manufactured by other companies.
  • Can be used in place of the breakers specified in other loadcenters.
  • Meet all code acceptance regulations governed by the National Electric Code and UL.
We are not here to create CODE....we serve to enforce it...and "Classified" breakers do not void any warrantys....in fact in many cases the warranty from the company that makes the replacement exceeds the warranty of the original manufacturer as well...like the case with Eaton Classified Breakers...they have a 15 year warranty by themselves...



Paul W. Abernathy
Manager, Electrical Codes & Standards
Encore Wire Corporation

“Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think.” -RIP Dad, Love You!....10/10/2014

Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum are of my own personal opinion and in no way represent the opinions of Encore Wire, or other associations, organizations or affiliations.
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Old 12/2/07, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

For years, consumers were screwed by automakers voiding warranties because non-OEM replacement parts were used. Good to see this trickled down to common consumer products.

tom
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Old 12/2/07, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Mismatched circuit breakers?

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