Multi-unit condo question

[William J. Decker]

I inspected two apartment style condo units in the same new building (350+ units, downtown) yesterday. The 3 bedroom unit was equipped with AFCI protection and all was fine. The smaller, studio unit, did not have a bedroom and had no AFCI protection. I guess it is assumed that the living room (hallway, closets, kitchen, bedroom and living room were the only rooms) would be used for sleeping, is this a problem?

Comments? How would you write it?

Thanks;

[wsiegel]

That is a good question. Cant wait for the gurus to answer.
In 2008 you wont have to worry about it. All circuits will be AFCI protected.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by wsiegel

In 2008 you wont have to worry about it. All circuits will be AFCI protected.

This is for 120v-15 & 20 amp circuits. It is still only a proposal and not likely to pass. ( I hope)

[gbeaumont]

Wil,

It sounds very much like someone is playing the stupid side of a very pedantic arguement there. If your area requires AFCI's in sleeping spaces on new contruction then I would write it up as being defficient in not having one installed.

Regards

Gerry

[Paul W. Abernathy]

basically...is it classified as a bedroom...does it have a cloth closet within the room in question......if it is a living room or similar that is converted....it would be a good argument for AFCI..but as the NEC stands now...if it is not a bedroom as classified....It would not require AFCI....

Important to note that the AFCI requirements are changing and many areas still do not understand them...

I have one AHj that says Lights within a bedroom are not OUTLETS and do not require them to be protected by AFCI.....

But the NEC says OUTLETS...then outlets define and I am briefing it....Utilization equipment....which is equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic ( smoke detectors ) and lighting....( sure I left out a few....)

Then look up Equipment in the definition and it explains Luminaries are considered equipment....if the electrical energy powers these "equipment" for needs to utilize lighting...then it is required to be protected by AFCI...

Man....did I digress or what....anyway had to teach a local AHJ that the other day....was fun.....anyway......it really depends on it's classification as a bedroom......if it has a closet and is combined....then chances are in the layout and specs of the design it is also a bedroom and then AFCI is required...

In the end...make a call to the local AHJ and ask them HOW they view it..chances are they have no idea....

[gbeaumont]

Hi to all,

Lets try on this senario.

You cannot have a residence without a bedroom.

You can skip, lounges, studys,dining rooms, family rooms, yada, yada, yada, etc.

If there is only one room in a residence apart from Kitchens, bathrooms, closets, and hallways then that space has to be the sleeping or bedroom space. if Chicago code madates that sleeping spaces are protected by AFCI's then that room has to be AFCI protected.

QED.

Regards

Gerry

[Paul W. Abernathy]

You can't speak for the local AHJ....they may in fact determine in their own mind it is not considered a bedroom and if that is the case the NEC refers to the location for AFCI's to be in bedrooms...

Again......READ my post......it explains the potential of both sides....but personally i would install a AFCI

[William J. Decker]

Gerry;

As usual, a voice of rationality calling out in the wilderness of local governmental cluelessness.

But, isn't this the lot of home inspectors.

Thanks;

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol...gotta fight the fight Sir William.....

[tdietrich1]

Originally Posted by wsiegel

That is a good question. Cant wait for the gurus to answer.
In 2008 you wont have to worry about it. All circuits will be AFCI protected.

That will be the day.

J/K. I've been told that AFCI aren't even required in NJ because the builder's lobbyists are very powerful. I've upgraded my house's bedroom circuits, and getting money together to get the other circuits upgraded. Plus, I do suggest it as an FYI to home owners.

later,

tom

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by tdietrich1

That will be the day.

J/K. I've been told that AFCI aren't even required in NJ because the builder's lobbyists are very powerful. I've upgraded my house's bedroom circuits, and getting money together to get the other circuits upgraded. Plus, I do suggest it as an FYI to home owners.

later,

tom

lol...go figure...since NJ was the state that won against FPE in the class action lawsuit...lol.......can you say BACKWARDS...I knew that you could...lol