Need help: New service-old wiring

[brepanshek]

Inpected a home where they updated receptacles with newer ones that had a grounding hole, they were installed on circuits that had no ground provided. Question. what would you put on the report, and the buyer wanted to know why this was wrong and is it a safety thing to be conscerned about?

[brepanshek]

Paul, your pics are great, I am working under someone right now and when we came to the panel, 1 of your pics had that no more than 1 grounding neutrual should be under 1 screw. I inspected this panel and it had double tapping and like 3 neutrals under 1 screw, was told this was normal practices and you see it all the time, need your prof. opinion. thanks

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by brepanshek

Inpected a home where they updated receptacles with newer ones that had a grounding hole, they were installed on circuits that had no ground provided. Question. what would you put on the report, and the buyer wanted to know why this was wrong and is it a safety thing to be conscerned about?

Brian,

It definately is a "safety concern". The NEC requires that the ground of the receptacle be bonded to Earth. Ther are some exceptions listed below. Read carefully.

I would write it up as "Receptacles at locations____ are not grounded and represent a potential safety hazard. This should be refered to a qualified electrical contractor for further evaluation"

Receptacle Replacement [210-7(d)] Where Grounding Means Exist. Where a grounding means exists in the receptacle enclosure, grounding-type receptacles shall replace nongrounding type receptacles and the receptacles grounding terminals must be grounded in accordance with Section 210-7(c).
GFCI Protection Required. When receptacles are replaced in locations where ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection is now required, the replacement receptacles must be GFCI protected. This includes the replacement of receptacles in bathrooms, garages, outdoors, crawl spaces, unfinished basements, kitchens, wet bar sinks and rooftops, etc.; see Section 210-8 for GFCI requirements.
Where No Ground Exists. Where no grounding means exist in the box, such as old NM cable without a ground, nongrounding-type receptacles can be replaced with:
· A nongrounding type receptacle.
· A GFCI-receptacle or a grounding type receptacle fed downstream from a GFCI-receptacle. These receptacles shall be marked “No Equipment Ground”.
· A grounding-type receptacle protected with a GFCI circuit breaker. These receptacles shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground”.
Note. The GFCI protection will function properly on a 2-wire circuit without an equipment grounding conductor. The equipment grounding conductor serves no purpose in the operation of the GFCI protection device and has

[brepanshek]

Thanks Micheal, so the only safety hazard here is that they replaced with wrong type of receptacle correct? If they were just standard 2 prong then nothing has to be said about a ground right? don't want to alarm buyer?

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by brepanshek

Thanks Micheal, so the only safety hazard here is that they replaced with wrong type of receptacle correct? If they were just standard 2 prong then nothing has to be said about a ground right?

...but you may want to check for reverse polarity.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by brepanshek

Thanks Micheal, so the only safety hazard here is that they replaced with wrong type of receptacle correct? If they were just standard 2 prong then nothing has to be said about a ground right? don't want to alarm buyer?

You should call lit out as a safety concern. GFCIs should be used in the bath etc. Better to call attention to it in you report. The work you describe is typical of an amateur retrofit. Did you check to see if the outlet screw was grounded? That would at least tell you if the wiring was in mc or conduit.

Easiest would be to suggest consultation with an electrical contractor. It is a safety hazard, especially in the bathroom or any outside outlets.

[Greg Fretwell]

You really can't answer the question without seeing the plug at the dryer/range. It should have been changed to 4 wire if the branch circuit was run in 4 wire. Then you split out the neutral and ground to the appropriate bus in the panel.
I am not sure how the AHJ arrived at his answer since the old 3 wire rule prohibited connection to a sub panel. It had to originate from the main panel where neutral and ground were the same thing. There is no good answer for a sub panel connection. If you connect to the ground bus you are putting "objectionable <neutral> current on grounding conductors" and if you connect to the neutral bus you are putting circuit voltage on the can of the appliance (as much as the neutral drop on the range/dryer branch circuit PLUS the feeder).