Neutral and Ground Branch Wires

[Greg Strump]

Could you please look at the attached photo and tell me if the wires on the right are a ground and nuetral sharing a single screw on the bus bar and should this be called out? Keep in mind this house was built in 1996 and 408.21 from the NEC did not go into effect until 2002.

[Robert Meier]

What does the label on the panel say about more than one conductor under a screw?

[Greg Strump]

There was no label.

[Robert Meier]

Although this was spelled out explicitly in the 2002 NEC the standard actually existed prior to 2002 in the form of 110.14(A) where terminals used for more than one conductor had to be listed as such. Usually this information can be found on the panel label. Chances are this was not permitted even prior to 2002.

110.14 Electrical Connections.
Because of different characteristics of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs shall be identified for the material of the conductor and shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), unless the device is identified for the purpose and conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment.
FPN: Many terminations and equipment are marked with a tightening torque.
(A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure connectors (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or splices to flexible leads. Connection by means of wire-binding screws or studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent shall be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller conductors.
Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.

[Greg Strump]

Thanks for the info, very helpful.

[Robert Meier]

As to whether or not you should call this out in your report I will leave that opinion to the HI's on this forum.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by gstrump

Keep in mind this house was built in 1996 and 408.21 from the NEC did not go into effect until 2002.

See this Mike Holt Video ... http://www.mikeholt.com/multimedia/NEC2002/408/408-21-Corp-LAN-smooth.ram

The requirement for one terminal per neutral wire has been around for a very long time. Prior to 2002 it was in UL 67 and should have been marked on the panel label.

It is a defect, but write this one up carefully (e.g. have an electrician check and separate the neutral wires as needed) as many electricians dont think it's a big deal for panels installed prior to 2002.

[Sean Fogarty]

In our area this was accepted practice until 2006 I believe, and I still see it in some counties for new construction. Double neutrals no, but one neutral and a ground yes. If the state electrical inspector said it was good then all I can would do was make note of it.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Originally Posted by roconnor

See this Mike Holt Video ... http://www.mikeholt.com/multimedia/NEC2002/408/408-21-Corp-LAN-smooth.ram

The requirement for one terminal per neutral wire has been around for a very long time. Prior to 2002 it was in UL 67 and should have been marked on the panel label.

It is a defect, but write this one up carefully (e.g. have an electrician check and separate the neutral wires as needed) as many electricians dont think it's a big deal for panels installed prior to 2002.

Thanks Robert.
Great PFD's

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Thanks Sean.
At Roy Cooke's in April he had a live double tapped neutrals hooked up to a free standing exterior light fixture to explain the reasoning behind double tapped nutrals.
Evidence is everything.

[Greg Strump]

What was the outcome of the double tapped neutrals when you tested it?

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Originally Posted by gstrump

What was the outcome of the double tapped neutrals when you tested it?

What was the outcome of the double tapped neutrals when you tested.
Dimming light. Resistance.
Back-flow.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Sorry Greg called away for a moment.
#1: Safety hazard'
#2: No double lugging of white wire ( neutral ) conductor.
#3: Following the white wires to the breaker or its entry point.
Recommend a licensed electrician.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

It seems to me that I have explained this one before....many times. Remember guys, we have a great search feature on this site as most (if not all) of these topics have been talked about before. Just some good info for research..