New install

[Charley L. Bottger]

I just made a call on this panel installed by a licensed electrican and approved by the local AHJ what do you see

[Bob Elliott]

Kinda hard to tell ground from neutral ay.

[Michael R. Boyett]

How about a #4 GEC?

[Troy Farmer]

Double tap neutral and ground if my eyes are correct

[Greg Fretwell]

The ground electrode conductor could be in the meter base

[Speedy Petey]

All I see is a 240v circuit where the white could have been re-marked.

What are you seeing???

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

The ground electrode conductor could be in the meter base

Greg that basically was my question the meter was located on the back side of this panel and was grounded to earth as required but what I am use to seeing in this area they will bring the ground on into the panel from the meter base this one they did not so I questioned the electrician as to why. I did not try to tell him he was wrong was just wanting to know why all of a sudden things were changing.

This new service had a 200 amp main installed in the added on area of the home with an additional 100 amp breaker feeding the original 100 amp FP panel

[Greg Fretwell]

The service can be grounded at any accessible point between the service disconnect and the service point. Paralleling the neutral with a GEC from the meter base to the service disconnect enclosure is troubling in itself (although not a code violation since 2002 or so). It is not unusual to see it landed on the meter base, some even say that is better since lightning energy does not need to come inside the house.
Some say that is a problem because the meter seal keeps the connection from being "accessible" but that is not what the definition of accessible says. Cutting the seal is not "disturbing the building finish", although it might disturb the utility if you don't call them first

[Michael R. Boyett]

Charley...here's one almost identical to your photo that I did today with the GEC like I would have expected.

[Rick K. Kie]

I thought the new NEC code says the "white" load carrying wires have to be wraped with black tape or painted the entire length of the wire inside the panel.
Am I wrong?

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by mboyett

Charley...here's one almost identical to your photo that I did today with the GEC like I would have expected.
Attachment 21702

Yes Mike your pic is what I am use to seeing in this area. Darn electricians have to go and start changing things. I know it was just to make me ask questions
</IMG>

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

The service can be grounded at any accessible point between the service disconnect and the service point. Paralleling the neutral with a GEC from the meter base to the service disconnect enclosure is troubling in itself (although not a code violation since 2002 or so). It is not unusual to see it landed on the meter base, some even say that is better since lightning energy does not need to come inside the house.
Some say that is a problem because the meter seal keeps the connection from being "accessible" but that is not what the definition of accessible says. Cutting the seal is not "disturbing the building finish", although it might disturb the utility if you don't call them first

Thanks Greg you basically stated the same as the local electrician that I talk with I just like to hear it from more than one person. I guess that I am just getting old and set in my ways.
</IMG>

[Mike Whitt]

Here is a picture of an old riser that was replaced during a wind storm.
As can be seen in the picture the Grounding Electrode Conductor is installed from the point of attachment to the rod and is a compliant installation.

The home owner replaced the riser with new PVC pipe after the storm and is still trying to get it to pass inspection, many many issues with the old service panel.

The purpose of the picture is to show the compliant installation of the GEC to the point of attachment of the service drop on the old riser.

[tdietrich1]

Some poco's want a seperate grounding rod on their meter bases, however this is rare. I do see a bonding screw, that leads me to believe all the bonding, and 'grounding' is done at the panel. What am I suppose to see, the 'crossed' wires might look doubled up, but a closer look doesn't make them appear so.

<scratching head>

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by rkie

I thought the new NEC code says the "white" load carrying wires have to be wraped with black tape or painted the entire length of the wire inside the panel.
Am I wrong?

Sir...you are not wrong and I will answer your question for you.

Ok..here is one reference for ya:

(B) Sizes Larger Than 6 AWG.

An insulated grounded
conductor larger than 6 AWG shall be identified by one of
the following means:
(1) By a continuous white or gray outer finish.
(2) By three continuous white stripes along its entire length
on other than green insulation.
(3) At the time of installation, by a distinctive white or
gray marking at its terminations. This marking shall
encircle the conductor or insulation.

Now...here is some additional info....

(C) Circuits of 50 Volts or More.

The use of insulation that
is white or gray or that has three continuous white stripes for
other than a grounded conductor for circuits of 50 volts or
more shall be permitted only as in (1) through (3).
(1) If part of a cable assembly and where the insulation is
permanently reidentified to indicate its use as an ungrounded
conductor, by painting or other effective
means at its termination, and at each location where the
conductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall
encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than
white, gray, or green.
(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor
for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and
the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking
of three continuous white stripes is used for the
supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from
the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications,
the conductor with white or gray insulation or with
three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified
to indicate its use by painting or other effective
effective means at its terminations and at each location


where the conductor is visible and accessible.
(3) Where a flexible cord, having one conductor identified
by a white or gray outer finish or three continuous
white stripes or by any other means permitted by
400.22, is used for connecting an appliance or equipment
permitted by 400.7. This shall apply to flexible
cords connected to outlets whether or not the outlet is
supplied by a circuit that has a grounded conductor.

Ok....just read the BOLD portions to answer your question.