A new way to assure that the ground rod is set deep enough

[Mike Whitt]

Help me out here a little so I can better understand just what point you are trying to make.

A voltage divider is a series circuit so if you have 25 volts between the grounding electrode conductor and the grounding electrode the voltage is being divided thus a series circuit.

From the grounding electrode looking back toward the transformer there is nothing in series except the grounded neutral conductor, the grounding electrode at the transformer and earth.

In order to have a voltage drop of 25 volts at the grounding electrode at the house there would have to be a problem with the grounded neutral and nothing else.

Installing enough electrodes to solve a problem such as this is doing nothing more than paying for electricity that the earth worms are using.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Mike

Sort of

Look at it this way the floor was sort of "floating" and was not common to the neutral

Remember the problem did exist

Also look at a little leakage to a ground in the stove that was not a really a good ground

The real problem is what is "ground"

rlb

[Richard L. Bennett]

Aso remember that the voltage difference will change with the amout of current that is being drawn in the grounds and the neutrals

It might not be resistance (series) but impeadance which could be some other things plus resistance

A little ground current can tell a lot about a system

As will said computer really must have "commons" to work against

As him to explain isolated grounds some day - The specs even spell out what wire goes to what place on a copper site ground plate

And trust I busted many a telecom site by having a wire on the wrong end of a copper plate where an "isolated ground" was hooked to site ground.

Have knowledge and respect for that 8ft conductive stick

rlb

[Greg Fretwell]

Mike I agree there is a problem but it appears to be on the FPL side. All of the ground wires on their poles are carrying current. I bet they do everywhere that uses plastic utilities.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

Mike I agree there is a problem but it appears to be on the FPL side. All of the ground wires on their poles are carrying current. I bet they do everywhere that uses plastic utilities.

Greg, something not adding up here, and I have no problem saying you're full of ****.

If FPL had a genuine problem, such that people were being shocked, why wouldn't a prudent man contact FPL (then his attorney)?

I think you're making stuff up as you go to cover for yourself. This might not be your first rodeo, but we're not riding bulls here, and some people don't believe everything they hear. Fixing a marginal grounding electrode conductor clamp will make an issue such as you describe go away, but if the problem was related to your dryer, an educated man would say your dryer is 3-wire connected and your bond strap is in place. A marginal neutral connection to the dryer would do what you describe.

Naturally, I fully expect you to swear everything is in order with your dryer, but don't expect me to believe any of it. Assurance of a good rod electrode connection is no assurance of occupant safety in an otherwise properly maintained home electrical system.

[Greg Fretwell]

Some folks just need a picture. This is just the grounded conductors.
The difference in "ground" between house 1 and house 4 will be the net of R1 - R5 plus RA (on the medium voltage side). The whole street may be floating above real ground (whatever you think that is) by RX, the total system voltage drop.

If I complained FPL would say I had a bad GES and walk away. They would be right.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

If I complained FPL would say I had a bad GES and walk away. They would be right.

Balderdash.

People regularly get money damages for problems such as yours.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

Greg, something not adding up here, and I have no problem saying you're full of ****.

If FPL had a genuine problem, such that people were being shocked, why wouldn't a prudent man contact FPL (then his attorney)?

I think you're making stuff up as you go to cover for yourself. This might not be your first rodeo, but we're not riding bulls here, and some people don't believe everything they hear. Fixing a marginal grounding electrode conductor clamp will make an issue such as you describe go away, but if the problem was related to your dryer, an educated man would say your dryer is 3-wire connected and your bond strap is in place. A marginal neutral connection to the dryer would do what you describe.

Naturally, I fully expect you to swear everything is in order with your dryer, but don't expect me to believe any of it. Assurance of a good rod electrode connection is no assurance of occupant safety in an otherwise properly maintained home electrical system.

Marc;

No need to get all swearing and all. Most local power companies do thinsg stupidly. Just the nature of the beast. And we do not need more sparky choad wars on this site! You electricians are way too sensitive.

I remember, in 1973, when I was doing my summer internship with Com Ed, at the Dresden Nuke (night shift, go figure), that I would, regularly, see guys snorting coke off the control panel.

I have checked the grounding for all of the transformer poles in my area (within 5 blocks of my house) and they were all carrying current. Just because a poco does it, that does not mean it is correct. And, just you try getting any kind of response from our local poco as to things not being up to snuff. In our area, the local poco is a, de facto, AHJ.

The only thing that brings them to their knees is when there are power outages and blown transformers in sub stations. I remember, a few years ago. Many power outages, some lasting for 3 - 4 days. Some news stories, but no real changes. Then, they blew a big sub station in the loop and the big buildings (housing city offices, and lawyer's offices) went down for a week. THEN the manure hit the ventilator!

I know many HIs who used to work for ComEd. They quit because of all the BS.

Again, just because a poco does it, that don't mean its correct.

Now, make nice with Greg before I give you a reddie

And play nice.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

Balderdash.

People regularly get money damages for problems such as yours.

Balderdash?

Now that's more like it

It's OK to insult, but let's keep it on a high level, shall we

[Greg Fretwell]

Until my house met minimum code I couldn't complain and when I fixed the obvious ground violation the problem went away. That is case closed on Matlock.

[Marc D. Shunk]

I forget what I typed that was replaced by the asterisks, but it wasn't a bad word. Must have been something the forum software didn't like.

[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

Until my house met minimum code I couldn't complain and when I fixed the obvious ground violation the problem went away. That is case closed on Matlock.

Well Greg when you fixed your obvious ground violation just were did this current end up at?

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Mike Whitt

Well Greg when you fixed your obvious ground violation just were did this current end up at?

The caloric flowed to the flogisten. I studied Physics, you know.

[Greg Fretwell]

It went into the earth which is a current carrying conductor, in spite of what the code says.
Answer the question T/F "current follows the path of least resistance"
(hint "all paths")

Look at at it this way. I am at the end of a 2000' 13.5kv medium voltage line. If FPL could even keep that voltage drop at 2% that would be 1% dropped on the neutral. Where did the 135 volts go? ... into the "ground". Perhaps you need more pictures but the one I posted does show the "resistors" presented by a service distribution network that is working perfectly. Look again at house 1 and house 4. If the load on transformer 1 is unbalanced (higher) on phase A and the load on transformer 2 is unbalanced (higher) on phase B all of the R1-R6 voltage drops will be imposed on the dirt between those houses.

Perhaps you have in "theory" land too long where wires don't drop voltage and the dirt is never a current carrying conductor. It always is. The only reason we ever thought it wasn't was because we used to have metal water systems that bonded the city together. I haven't seen a metal supply line installed since the Ford adminisration.

[Mike Whitt]

So if you have the required 25 ohms of resistance with your grounding electrode and you have a 25 voltage drop across this electrode this means that your are paying the power company about $20 a month for electricity for the worms.

Sounds like a good deal to me