No main disconnect?

[Michael R. Boyett]

Here's a 30 year old well built home. Service and meter in the front yard supplies a gutter and 4 sub-panels in the back yard about 75 feet away. No main disconnect on the home side of the meter (there apparently is one on the POCO side, see photo). Gutter supplies the 4 sub-panels and the sub-panels all have Grounds, Neutrals and Chassis bonded. Did I miss something or does this look OK to the sparky's? The home has been well maintained and has had some upgrades over the years and the local electricians have placed their logos on the panels somewhat indicating they approve of everything inside. Thoughts?
Attachment 4929 Attachment 4930

[Bruce A. King]

At that time it seems no one carried 4 conductor cables for feeding subpanels so they used 3 conductors and always thought it was correct.

As long as you have the POCO disconnect switch it should be fine.
Recommend an insulated neutral be ran to each subpanel that has 120V circuits (isolated neutrals) for safety upgrade.

[Larry D. Kage]

I'm not for sure but I'm thinking the gutter and panels together could be the service equipment and not load side equipment. Was the GEC/GES there at the gutter?

Paul?...others?...help us out?

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

It's simple, if you ask me. Is it "service" equipment, or is it "other" equipment?

The meter and disconnect are the "service" equipment (which are clearly separated from the "other" equipment).

The gutter, which carries the load side feeders (not the service feeders), may very well "bond" the load side panels, but it does not negate the need for isolation of the neutrals (exceptions apply and will, I'm sure, be hammered in by our resident sparkies).

In any event, as Home Inspectors (and thereby, generalists), we should defer for evaluation/repair any time we see load side equipment where neutrals are grounded. Let the sparkies sort it out.

[brian winkle]

Michael, it looks like the utility enters the meter can from behind thru that utility owned junction box. Then it would leave the meter and enter that big main disconnect. So that would qualify as the house side main.

Most utilities will not allow a disconnect like that before the meter, it would make it too easy to steal power.

[Michael R. Boyett]

I do have to admit that the panel to the left of the meter with the disconnect was assumed to be POCO equipment feeding the meter (the house is to the right in the photo). I guess it really could be house side and the main disconnect. That would change things some wouldn't it?

[jtedesco1]

Service Equipment. The necessary equipment, usually consisting of a circuit breaker(s) or switch(es) and fuse(s) and their accessories, connected to the load end of service conductors to a building or other structure, or an otherwise designated area, and intended to constitute the main control and cutoff of the supply.

From what I can see in the pictures, I believe that this equipment is in terrible condition, and looks like it has not be maintained for a very long time.

The issues about the neutrals, etc., are not important here. I sincerely believe that the whole system should be evaluated by the Utility Company, the AHJ, and a licensed and qualified electriciian, if any are available.

I would love to be the fly on the wall having this to discuss with knowledgable electricians and inspection authorities on site.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Joe, I agree that the panel area needed attention. The 91 year old owner died in Feb and his 90 year old widow is selling ($750k Texas dollars or $3M in California dollars) and moving to an assisted living facility in Dallas. The rest of the home looked much better than the panel area. Now, unless I can really identify something that is unsafe or very technically wrong I don't want to simply defer to a sparky because the panels are rusty.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by brian winkle

Michael, it looks like the utility enters the meter can from behind thru that utility owned junction box. Then it would leave the meter and enter that big main disconnect. So that would qualify as the house side main.

Most utilities will not allow a disconnect like that before the meter, it would make it too easy to steal power.

That makes sense...appreciate the lesson.

[Michael R. Boyett]

I will Larry, once I can confirm that the switch is house side and not POCO side equipment. I think it will take another trip out to the community where the house was to talk to the AHJ there.

[Larry D. Kage]

Glad you're following up...assuming can really have an effect.

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by jpope

It's simple, if you ask me. Is it "service" equipment, or is it "other" equipment?

The meter and disconnect are the "service" equipment (which are clearly separated from the "other" equipment).

The gutter, which carries the load side feeders (not the service feeders), may very well "bond" the load side panels, but it does not negate the need for isolation of the neutrals (exceptions apply and will, I'm sure, be hammered in by our resident sparkies).

In any event, as Home Inspectors (and thereby, generalists), we should defer for evaluation/repair any time we see load side equipment where neutrals are grounded. Let the sparkies sort it out.

Mr. Pope you are the Man. I have seen you go from asking seemingly silly questions .. to making the sparkies look silly.. Thank you for all that you do.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by tallen

I have seen you go from asking seemingly silly questions ..

Don't remind me. . .

[Greg Fretwell]

One thing struck me in the OPs pictures. When they say "less than 6" they mean to disconnect all of the power, not 6 per panel. This installation may be OK but you should have someone looking at it to say that.

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

Michael -

Call me a silly boy, but once I saw it sitting on the ground and rusting out I'd have been recommending a licensed and competent electrician for further review and evaluation - for safety, age, condition, moisture, etc.