OK, Be kind. Newbie with alot to learn.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

FYI......QUOTE from the website you posted a link too...

I talked with a Sqaure D tech support guy, and got it in writing that the little hole is for the GEC.

So.........it is the MANUFACTURERS WILL......and it is perfectly fine....the smaller Ko's....NOT WEEP HOLES.......if thats what we are talking about.

SO...I am PUBLICALLY making this statement.....I AM CORRECT...

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

SO...I am PUBLICALLY making this statement.....I AM CORRECT...

Teehehe...Correct in my view of the small KO....not weep holes,who in their right mind would stick a wire in a weep hole.....dang yankee's....thehehehehe

[smcarthur]

Paul,
I'll publically agree with you. Sorry, Joe, I think you're wrong on this one.

[jtedesco1]

So then, you are saying that we can use the "weep hole" for the GEC, or are we talking about two different items?

I was talking about the "weep hole" and I mentioned it because you called it out as it related to another post.

[smcarthur]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

So then, you are saying that we can use the "weep hole" for the GEC, or are we talking about two different items?

I was talking about the "weep hole" and I mentioned it because you called it out as it related to another post.

I think this may be where we differ in our opinions, and opinion is all it is on my part, I 'm of the opinion that the 1/4" hole that comes sealed from the mfg. with a knockout is not a weephole and therefore acceptable as an entrance for the GEC without a fitting. However, the open holes generally found in the corners of the box are weepholes and are just for that purpose and no other and should never be used as an entrance for the GEC or anything else, because to do so would defeat their intended purpose and be a code violation.
I have for years, in many jurisdictions and many different AHJs, knocked out the 1/4'' hole and used it for the GEC and have never been called on it. But, with that said, if using it is a code violation, I will cease.
My only reason for reading and posting on this or any other forum is education. I think these discussions and the inevitable differences of opinion are very educational and to that end of great value to all who visit and post here.
Thank you Joe and Paul for your contribution to my education.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by smcarthur

I think this may be where we differ in our opinions, and opinion is all it is on my part, I 'm of the opinion that the 1/4" hole that comes sealed from the mfg. with a knockout is not a weephole and therefore acceptable as an entrance for the GEC without a fitting. However, the open holes generally found in the corners of the box are weepholes and are just for that purpose and no other and should never be used as an entrance for the GEC or anything else, because to do so would defeat their intended purpose and be a code violation.
I have for years, in many jurisdictions and many different AHJs, knocked out the 1/4'' hole and used it for the GEC and have never been called on it. But, with that said, if using it is a code violation, I will cease.
My only reason for reading and posting on this or any other forum is education. I think these discussions and the inevitable differences of opinion are very educational and to that end of great value to all who visit and post here.
Thank you Joe and Paul for your contribution to my education.

You are welcomed!

OK that's what I thought, and the discussions here are valuable sources for information.

BTW I see that you are also an Educator.

I will send a picture for your class to critique, taken today with a similar thought related to our discussions here.

http://www.yorktech.com/rescom/Faculty.asp

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Steve & Joe,

Firstly, Joe I never said a word about the 1/4" hole used by most electricians next to the larger KO's for SE conductors or Conduit....as being a weep hole.

Secondly, the problem is in the question.....only you have stated it as being a weep hole....it is in NO WAY a weep hole....as in the image I posted, it is clear what a weep hole is and what the holes that MUST be knocked out is.....they are not the same thing.

So...thirdly.....and for the last time.....as I have stated this now until I am BLUE in the face....

1.) A weep hole has it's intent.....the manufacturer places them in the enclosure and boxes for a reason and it should be used as such.....but not as a hole for the GEC to enter into........

2.) The GEC can enter into the enclosure through the " APPROVED" smaller KO opening that MUST be knocked out next to the SE or COnduit enterance opening....this is NOT a weep hole.

So I have NO idea why this got so confusing for anyone....a weep hole is a weep hole....if used to bring in a GEC then it is wrong.....as that is not the intent of the weep hole.........but in regards to the smaller 1/4" KO's that are where I explained and must be knocked out manually....those are not weep holes and are placed their by the Manufacturer for the intent of the GEC to enter into the enclosure.

Has nothing to do with bonding...or anything as this should and rightly so take place on the grounded/grounding bar.....

While I think Mr Ode from the UL is a bit confused in regards to his statement you posted on another forum......in the end the hole is what it is.....and a KO for the GEC......but the smaller holes in the corners and sides of boxes other than the mounting holes are weep holes and should be treated as such.

This is very clear....and should not be a basis for any confussion.

HOWEVER.....I do think now it was a matter of knowing the question....you may have been asking about weep holes and I thought steve was asking about a debate over the 1/4 KO being called a weep hole...if that was the case I appologize...but I think you know it is not a weep hole so it's all good.......

[Paul W. Abernathy]

P.S......sorry you feel insulted Joe.....was only stating MY opinion on Steve's question to me......

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

HI Randi,

Your pictures #2 and #5 show what appears to be a “homemade” shelf or work table.
Although it is difficult to tell from your photos they seem to show that the shelf extends in front of the panel.
A minimum of 30-inches of unobstructed clearance is required.

International Residential Code for One & Two family Dwellings}
E3305
EQUIPMENT LOCATION AND CLEARANCES
E3305.1 Working space and clearances.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained around all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment in accordance with this section and Figure E3305.1.

E3305.2 Working clearances for energized equipment and panelboards.
Except as otherwise specified in Chapters 33 through 42, the dimension of the working space in the direction of access to panelboards and live parts likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing or maintenance while energized shall be not less than 36 inches (914 mm) in depth. Distances shall be measured from the energized parts where such parts are exposed or from the enclosure front or opening where such parts are enclosed. In addition to the 36-inch dimension (914 mm), the work space shall not be less than 30 inches (762 mm) wide in front of the electrical equipment and not less than the width of such equipment. The work space shall be clear and shall extend from the floor or platform to a height of 6.5 feet (1981 mm). In all cases, the work space shall allow at least a 90-degree opening of equipment doors or hinged panels. Equipment associated with the electrical installation located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the front of the electrical equipment.

FIGURE E3305.1 a, b, c, d, e
WORKING SPACE AND CLEARANCES

I hope that this is of some help.