Panel & Sub-Panel

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Panel & Sub-Panel

[Marc D. Shunk]

They're both service panels in your case, and they appear to be set up as such. The only nonconformity related to that is the double tap, which is not proper. The black tape on the grounded conductor to the second panel is also not proper.

There also appears to be a working space violation, as the panel appears to be recessed back inside a cupboard of some sort (basement remodel, I'd guess). For this to be compliant, the face of the panel would need to be in the same plane as the face frame of the cupboard.

I don't really see where the bigger service conductor's grounded conductor enters the panel or terminates.

[wsiegel]

marc,

Just curious. How can you call the second (sub) panel a service panel. It appears to be fed through the double tap from the main panel (the one with the disconnect).

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by wsiegel

marc,

Just curious. How can you call the second (sub) panel a service panel. It appears to be fed through the double tap from the main panel (the one with the disconnect).

It's only a sub-panel if it has overcurrent protection ahead of it. That double tapped conductor is still a service conductor until it makes its way through a main breaker. If it travels very far, it's a violation too. It needs to be pretty darned short to take advantage of the fact that service conductors can't travel very far indoors (I was assuming they're both side by side, as they appear to have the same plywood background). That cable to the second panel is still a service cable, and not a feeder yet.

In any event, it's still all wrong and bad news, and needs attention.

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

The intended sub panel is installed just below the Main Panel.

[Scott Schultz]

Also, in the last picture of the supposed "sub" panel, the neutral and grounds don't appear to be separated.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Scott Schultz

Also, in the last picture of the supposed "sub" panel, the neutral and grounds don't appear to be separated.

Right, because it's a service panel at this point, but they did their tap non-compliantly. To make it safe, they either need to do a compliant tap, -or- feed that second panel with 4-wire from a breaker in the first panel, and set the second panel up as a sub (grounds and neutrals separated).

You have to understand that these pictures are functionally no different than two, 200 amp panels, each fed out of a 400 amp meter can. Two service panels. Neither one is a sub. That's what we have here, except they did the tap for the second panel wrong by double tapping the lugs on the line side of the first panel's main breaker.