Panel Question

[James A. Levy]

If what is supposed to be a main panel (with a main breaker and bonded neutral conductor) is disconnected by a fused safety switch next to the meter, wouldn't that panel be a sub-panel? I would think it needs the neutrals and grounds separated and not bonded. I must also add that it is fed by SER cable from the fused switch.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

It depends on how it's set up. Do you have a picture?

It may be all part of the service equipment (depending on the connection method, the distance between the switch and the panel, etc.) or it may be separate equipment.

What do you mean by "SER" cable?

[James E. Braun, CMI]

It sounds like to me you just have two disconnects (one outside and one inside).

[Robert Meier]

The good news if everything else was done correctly, with the SER type SE cable you probably only need to remove the bonding screw at the sub-panel.

[James A. Levy]

Originally Posted by jpope

It depends on how it's set up. Do you have a picture?

It may be all part of the service equipment (depending on the connection method, the distance between the switch and the panel, etc.) or it may be separate equipment.

What do you mean by "SER" cable?

I will dig up a pic. since I am in the middle of the report now. SER meaning a neutral and an equipment ground. In contrast, SEU cable having a helically wound neutral conductor only.

[Robert Meier]

Where is the Grounding Electrode Conductor(s) connected?

[James A. Levy]

This is the disconnect, the birds nest of a neutral bus-bar with neutrals and grounds under the same screw, and yes the panel is mounted to the ceiling.
Those are the obvious things. I thought if the disconnect were fused or a breaker, that was considered the main and anything downstream of it was a sub-panel.

[James A. Levy]

Originally Posted by Robert Meier

Where is the Grounding Electrode Conductor(s) connected?

It is a water pipe grounding conductor out of a trough that is below the meter and disconnect.

[Tim Spargo]

I'm guessing that Robert is asking if the GEC is connected @ the fused switch or the ceiling mounted panel (I haven't typed that too many times) to establish your main and remote panels.

[Robert Meier]

Your photo's shed some new light on to this installation. Yes, the EGC's and neutrals should terminate separately in the sub panel. The GEC should go to the fused disconnect neutral and the neutral should be bonded to the enclosure. You said that they ran SER to the subpanel, did they terminate both the neutral and EGC in the feeder to the same bus?

[James A. Levy]

Originally Posted by Robert Meier

Your photo's shed some new light on to this installation. Yes, the EGC's and neutrals should terminate separately in the sub panel. The GEC should go to the fused disconnect neutral and the neutral should be bonded to the enclosure. You said that they ran SER to the subpanel, did they terminate both the neutral and EGC in the feeder to the same bus?

Yes they terminated on the same bus as if it were a main panel. That was why I questioned myself on that one.

In my report, I went with my gut feeling and called out improper installation and that the neutrals and grounds needed to be separated and not bonded to the panel.

Thanks for the info.

Drew

[George P. Wells, CMI]

Originally Posted by jlevy1

If what is supposed to be a main panel (with a main breaker and bonded neutral conductor) is disconnected by a fused safety switch next to the meter, wouldn't that panel be a sub-panel? I would think it needs the neutrals and grounds separated and not bonded. I must also add that it is fed by SER cable from the fused switch.

James,

The fused safety-switch is the service panel. The downstream panel is a distribution panel (aka sub-panel) and should be wired accordingly. SER is OK. Having a main breaker in the distribution panel is OK too.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by gwells

The fused safety-switch is the service panel ...

I think you mean "service equipment" ...

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by roconnor

I think you mean "service equipment" ...

And also the service disconnect.

[James E. Braun, CMI]

Okay I am learning something new because it is not being done in my area, but it would not surprise me it is wrong because our electricians and code officials are mainly hillbillies.
So if there was a main outside breaker at the meter before it goes into the panel inside the house, the panel needs to be treated as a sub-panel?