power for gas cook top ignitors

[Bruce A. King]

All of the gas cooktop manuals I have read "recommend" (not require) a dedicated 120V circuit for the ignitors. But they cover their bases by also saying to meet your local code.....

So technically, a kitchen small appliance circuit is not allowed to power a built in appliance since those circuits have limits in the NEC right?

I see many gas cooktops on dedicated circuits (or at least they are not on a GFCI circuit) in mecklenburg county but still see some that are on the protected side of one of the kitchen GFCI circuits.

How many check for this and report it as a defect if tripping the GFCI kills the cook top ignitors?

[Larry D. Kage]

I had one the other day that was like that. I was able to show the client where to re-set the gfci, if need be, so the ignitor would function again.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by bking

So technically, a kitchen small appliance circuit is not allowed to power a built in appliance since those circuits have limits in the NEC right?

The NEC addresses small appliance branch circuits that serve counter tops. There must be at least two separate circuits, and these must be GFCI protected.

All other circuits and receptacles can be without GFCI protection, which includes additional circuits (dedicated or not) installed for built-in appliances - cook tops, dishwashers, disposals, ovens, refrigerators, microwaves, etc.

[Bruce A. King]

More information.........

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...tml#post107961

[Paul W. Abernathy]

If the appliance is a gas range lets say or gas cooktop then the NEC® clearly allows the SMBC to provide power for the receptacle that serves the above mentioned appliance in accordance with :

(2) No Other Outlets.

The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.

Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical
supply to and support of an electric clock in any of
the rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).

Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power
for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired

ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.

[Chuck Lambert]

Several stove/cook top manufacturers require their stove/cook tops be connected to NON-GFCI proptected receptacles for obvious safety reasons.

Chuck

[Bruce A. King]

I would appreciate it if you could send me the manuf name or model number of those for future reference, thanks!

[Paul W. Abernathy]

I also would like to see that manufacturers information and why it would be a "safety reason" to protect it with a GFCI Circuit.

In fact the 2011 NEC® is going to remove the exception for Fire Alarm Systems that allows a non-gfci circuit for fire alarm systems. Since the NFPA 72 requires a certain amount of standby time and notification of power loss it begins to be pointless.

I am not aware of any place that a properly installed GFCI will not enhance safety ( excluding a conveyor belt of molten metal over my head type senerios..lol )....so please send me a copy of those manufacturers specs as well please.

[Chuck Lambert]

Page 4
http://www.whirlpool.com/assets/pdfs...nstruction.pdf

Chuck

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by Chuck Lambert

Page 4
http://www.whirlpool.com/assets/pdfs...nstruction.pdf

Chuck

IMPORTANT: The cooktop must be electrically grounded in
accordance with local codes and ordinances, or in the absence
of local codes, with the National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70
or Canadian Electrical Code, CSA C22.1.
This cooktop is equipped with an electronic ignition system that
will not operate if plugged into an outlet that is not properly
polarized.
This cooktop is equipped with an electronic ignition system that
will not operate properly if plugged into a ground fault interrupt
circuit.
If codes permit and a separate ground wire is used, it is
recommended that a qualified electrical installer determine that
the ground path is adequate.
A copy of the above code standards can be obtained from:
National Fire Protection Association
One Batterymarch Park
Quincy, MA 02269
CSA International
8501 East Pleasant Valley Road
Cleveland, OH 44131-5575
■ A 120-volt, 60 Hz., AC only, 15-amp fused, electrical circuit is
required. A time-delay fuse or circuit breaker is also
recommended. It is recommended that a separate circuit
serving only this range be provided.
■ Electronic ignition systems operate within wide voltage limits,
but proper grounding and polarity are necessary. Check that
the outlet provides 120-volt power and is correctly grounded.
■ The wiring diagram are provided with this cooktop.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Ahh...so it not so much that it is not allowed versus the manufacturer says it will cause it to not function properly. Sounds good to me.....just remember that while it may not function properly....NEC® wise it is not a vioilation...lol......and again I only deal in the NEC® as my expert opinion goes. As Mr. Bushart has taught me over the years.....HI's go beyond this and I concur they should in most cases. However, while it may not function properly......it would not lower the level of safety in doing so. Just will provide a cooktop ignitor that wont function right....lol.....Sorry as I could not resist that last part.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Ahh...so it not so much that it is not allowed versus the manufacturer says it will cause it to not function properly. Sounds good to me.....just remember that while it may not function properly....NEC® wise it is not a vioilation...lol......and again I only deal in the NEC® as my expert opinion goes. As Mr. Bushart has taught me over the years.....HI's go beyond this and I concur they should in most cases. However, while it may not function properly......it would not lower the level of safety in doing so. Just will provide a cooktop ignitor that wont function right....lol.....Sorry as I could not resist that last part.

Paul what is it about GFCI that would cause a problem?

[Bruce A. King]

Bob,

Maybe Paul will be back on here but I'll add this......

There is probably nothing with a powered GFCI (not tripped) that will cause an operational problem with the cook top. The manufacturers include a lot of CYA in these manuals for various reasons, mostly because they are tweaked by lawyers to help control liability and to give them a way to void warranties in some cases.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by bking

Bob,

Maybe Paul will be back on here but I'll add this......

There is probably nothing with a powered GFCI (not tripped) that will cause an operational problem with the cook top. The manufacturers include a lot of CYA in these manuals for various reasons, mostly because they are tweaked by lawyers to help control liability and to give them a way to void warranties in some cases.

Perhaps
I would think AFCI would be an issue rather.
Maybe it is because a GFCI will operate with no ground.

[Mark Thorman]

Originally Posted by lkage

I had one the other day that was like that. I was able to show the client where to re-set the gfci, if need be, so the ignitor would function again.

Maybe this is the not function properly that manufacture is refering to. If its tripped, it wont work.

www.MauiHomeInspections.com