Question for Mr. Decker

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Actually, anyone can chime in if they feel. This was directed at Will just because it is in his home territory.
Just received an e-mail from a client stating that the seller/builder is arguing one of my findings. The EBJ from the A/C is not attached correctly, but by a self-tapping screw. The seller's attorney states that "the village approved it and they got a certificate of occupancy and this is the way they do it". Will, I was wondering if this is the common practice in the village of Skokie or if you would be able to tell me if Eric Johnson (elect inspec) would accept questions about this. Thanks, Jeff (Wick)

[Marc D. Shunk]

Sheet metal screws are not permitted to be used as a ground screw. That screw pictured, commonly referred to as wafer-head TEK screw, is a self-drilling sheet metal screw. A different type of sheet metal screw, but a sheet metal screw just the same. Shouldn't be like that, but nothing I'd lose any sleep over if it's otherwise redundant. Looks like the circuit is in EMT, which qualifies as the ground in and of itself.

[David A. Andersen]

Personally, I've seen nothing to "argue" about.

If the buyer wants it, the buyer should get it or go find another house.

If the seller doesn't want to fix it than the seller should put the house back on the market and take their chances.

Again however, is this a significant issue? Did you see something associated with this alleged deficiency that indicates that it is actually a deficiency or just a theoretical technical concern?

Due to the lack of other significant issues, I would be telling my client that if they don't like it they should pay to get it fixed. That way they can sleep at night.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

The EBJ from the A/C is not attached correctly, but by a self-tapping screw.

I always call out improper connections, if for no other reason than to document that I saw it, and it's improper.

In the instances where I'm confronted by an electrician, I simply suggest that they give a written statement that there is "no problem" with the connection. I've only had one electrician willing to do that, and as such, any liability was shifted to him.

FWIW- EBJ is not the proper term for this conductor. EGC or equipment-grounding-conductor is more accurate.

[Bruce A. King]

An NM cable clamp looks the same as that on one side, nothing there that proves to have EMT.

Here is a picture of one of the nachi training panels I built thats full of problems. You can see both sides of these clamps.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by bking

An NM cable clamp looks the same as that on one side, nothing there that proves to have EMT.

Since it's all THHN leaving out of the connector, and the person posted this pic from the Chicago area, it's a pretty good bet it's leaving in EMT.

[Bruce A. King]

thats right! I didn't notice the THHN.

Rat proof electrical like NY.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by jpope

FWIW- EBJ is not the proper term for this conductor. EGC or equipment-grounding-conductor is more accurate.

While "EGC" is proper in verbiage terminology......the "EBJ" is more accurate in function.... ....kinda wish they would actually change it but alas it always fails adoption...lol

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

While "EGC" is proper in verbiage terminology......the "EBJ" is more accurate in function....

Agreed. . .

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

....kinda wish they would actually change it but alas it always fails adoption...lol

I think they won't adopt it because they're all old fogies and the acronymn has "BJ" in it.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

. . . and it might eliminate some of the confusion between bonding and grounding. We couldn't have that. . .

[Bruce A. King]

J being for jumper?

A jumper is usually where you can view each end of it without moving your feet. But this view might be more electronics than electrical.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

Actually, anyone can chime in if they feel. This was directed at Will just because it is in his home territory.
Just received an e-mail from a client stating that the seller/builder is arguing one of my findings. The EBJ from the A/C is not attached correctly, but by a self-tapping screw. The seller's attorney states that "the village approved it and they got a certificate of occupancy and this is the way they do it". Will, I was wondering if this is the common practice in the village of Skokie or if you would be able to tell me if Eric Johnson (elect inspec) would accept questions about this. Thanks, Jeff (Wick)

Sorry I was so late to the party. Thought you were asking my Dad (Mr. Decker). Best to just e-mail me (see below) directly.

That is a truely F'ed up installation, in this area.

1) Usually, grounding is through the contiguious metal conduit (EMT), but most AHJ's want to see a seperate green wire run and connected to the servive equipment at the ground / neutral bonding point (the neutral buss) for A/C units.

2) You have to remember (I assume that this was in Skokie, in which case why didn't you just call me and I would have come over and helped (no charge, buy me a coke if you feel guilty)) that in Illinois:
a) Electricians are NOT state licensed. Only city or, sometimes, the county, licenses electricians.
b) Many builder / sellers who have no clue, and hire similarly clueless subs.
c) What the builder eastern european? That would explain it (in this area).

3) When they say that it was OK with the village or town, DEMAND proof. You will not get it. The builder just says that it passed code inspection (which it usuallu did not). The local AHJs will NEVER provide documentation that they approved anything to the buyer or the buyer's lawyer. By court decision, they have no liability for not inspecting it or not calling it out if it is wrong. Go figure.

If you call me (see below), I can provide some help. There are a couple of builders in this area that "have an in", if you know what I mean. They have to be dealt with a certain way.

But, to answer your question, this is wrong, as far as an HI is concerned. It does not conform to "current national construction standards", which is this state's requirement for HIs.

Call me.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

While "EGC" is proper in verbiage terminology......the "EBJ" is more accurate in function.... ....kinda wish they would actually change it but alas it always fails adoption...lol

The revised definition includes a new FPN No. 1, and it gives us something to consider, seems appropriate and helps to settle the long standing issues that were proposed and rejected.

"Grounding Conductor, Equipment (EGC). The conductive path installed to connect normally non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment together and to the system grounded conductor or to the grounding electrode conductor, or both.

FPN No. 1: It is recognized that the equipment grounding conductor also performs bonding.

FPN No. 2: See 250.118 for a list of acceptable equipment grounding conductors."

[Greg Fretwell]

250.102 talks about EBJs.