Service Entrance Conductors Concealed

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Service drop is at left rear corner. Meter is at right rear corner. Conductors are hidden as they run from one corner of house to the other by a room additon and vinyl siding that was added. Is this acceptable? I think not, and searched the board but was overwhelmed with the query return. Thanks for your help. A C0*e reference would also be appreciated (can't find it in E3505).

[Bruce A. King]

If the exposed portion looks ok I would not be concerned but you might note that the cable is not all visible for inspection.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Service drop is at left rear corner. Meter is at right rear corner. Conductors are hidden as they run from one corner of house to the other by a room additon and vinyl siding that was added. Is this acceptable? I think not, and searched the board but was overwhelmed with the query return. Thanks for your help. A C0*e reference would also be appreciated (can't find it in E3505).

Attachment 5357

This is not acceptable according to NEC 230.6.

Search for: "Conductors Considered Outside the Building."

PS: I would take a look in the spaces above the concealed run, if they are accessible in an "attic, or crawl" space, and look for "illegal tapping", just to put my mind at ease.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

This is not acceptable according to NEC 230.6.

Joe - 230.6 is a defining reference. Can you explain how this is unacceptable or prohibited by the section you provided?

[jtedesco1]

Jeff:

This concealed Type SE cable assembly is now a defect, because it is not visible, and would be the subject of the investigation if there was a fire. See the Definition of Concealed.

If we could see the entire length, as it was before it was covered up (concealed) and the service point of connection at the drip loop, it may be possible that it was changed (buried splice) from one type to another type of cable.

230.6 is the rule that considers: "Unprotected SEC's" and is why it gives us some different methods that will show where the SEC's are outside of the building. I am sure that some firefighters have experiences that will support the hazard.

I posted a message here:

ELECTRICAL FIRES AND THEIR CAUSES

I will monitor this site too, and also suggest that we read Chapter 18 of NFPA 921 available for reveiw here:

NFPA 921: Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations, 2004 Edition

Preview this document.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Are you citing the length of the concealment, or the concealment itself? Most SEC's are concealed to some extent.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

I was concerned as the cable was not visible or apparent. Construction had covered it when they added a covered back porch. Think what would happen if someone drives a nail into the upper wall of the back porch and hits that cable!

Here's what I said in my report: "The service entrance conductors are concealed and inaccessible. We recommend that the electric utility
evaluate the installation of the service entrance conductors and repair as deemed necessary."

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Concealed (as defined by the NEC).

Rendered inaccessible by the structure or finish of the building. Wires in concealed raceways are considered concealed, even though they may become accessible by withdrawing them.

As I said, most, if not all, service entrance conductors are concealed to some extent. In fact, NEC 300.37 requires concealment of the SEC's.


I don't beleive that "concealment" is an issue here. I don't have the NFPA to reference, so I hope that Joe will provide the applicable section here.

Even the "length" of the SEC's is subjectively "allowed" by the NEC, as there are no specific requirements set forth that I am aware of (other than "as close as possible").

Can you be more specific Joe T.? I see this often and would like a solid reference.

[smcarthur]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

I was concerned as the cable was not visible or apparent. Construction had covered it when they added a covered back porch. Think what would happen if someone drives a nail into the upper wall of the back porch and hits that cable!

Here's what I said in my report: "The service entrance conductors are concealed and inaccessible. We recommend that the electric utility
evaluate the installation of the service entrance conductors and repair as deemed necessary."

The service entrance cables between the meter and the weatherhead are the responsibility of the homeowner. As such the homeowner or buyer, as the case may be, is responsible to correct such defects.
You pointed out what could be a large expense to the buyer. A new service in this area usually runs $1000-1500.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

I was concerned as the cable was not visible or apparent. Construction had covered it when they added a covered back porch. Think what would happen if someone drives a nail into the upper wall of the back porch and hits that cable!

Here's what I said in my report: "The service entrance conductors are concealed and inaccessible. We recommend that the electric utility
evaluate the installation of the service entrance conductors and repair as deemed necessary."

Joe:

Good choice of words and identification of a problem.

Jeff:

I agree, but each installation must be considered individually such as new construction, existing, and remodels that always make the problems worse when the cable is covered up.

Joe's image shows some really old cable.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Joe F. - is that a cable assembly or conduit?

If that is a cable assembly, I take back everything I said

My statements were made under the assumption that this was conduit we were looking at.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Cable assembly. Not conduit. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

I should have know from the size, but at a quick glance, I thought it was conduit

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Originally Posted by jpope

I should have know from the size, but at a quick glance, I thought it was conduit

At a quick glance of the photo, I also assumed conduit was pictured.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Service drop is at left rear corner. Meter is at right rear corner. Conductors are hidden as they run from one corner of house to the other by a room additon and vinyl siding that was added. Is this acceptable? I think not, and searched the board but was overwhelmed with the query return. Thanks for your help. A C0*e reference would also be appreciated (can't find it in E3505).

Attachment 5357

Concealed Feed in Canada must be incased in Cement or not allowed .
I do believe the main reason is it is to easy to steal power in a concealed area.
Open the conduit or strip the insulation .
Join a couple of Cables and free power.
Thats the main reason why Grow houses want under ground feed to the house .
Cut through the basement wall to the supply and wallah free power .
Roy Cooke ... Royshomeinspection.com