Service size?

What is the service size for this Siemens main electric service panel?
Thank you.

What size was the SE conductors? Looks like a panel change with some problems. I like all of the reds on one side and all of the blacks on the other. :roll:

Michael

Are you that’s a service panel?

I don’t see a bonding strap or screw. I don’t see a GEC. I don’t see a main breaker.

You didn’t give enough info for us to tell you the service size. You need to look at conductor size.

Where is the main disconnect? Is the panel fed via conduit? The service wires look around #2 perhaps? #2 copper is good for 100 amps at 60*C, 125 amps if based on the NEC dwelling table.

But something is fishy. If this is a main panel I see no bond strap. If this is a sub panel (as should be with a main disco else where) it has a ground wire on the neutral bar. Is this the only panel in the home?

Ok, looking at this again Id guess the panel is fed with #2 romex or SER since I don’t see individual markings on any of the feeder conductors which would indicate a cable assembly.

Of possible major concern… I see only 5 neutrals yet 10 hots so that would indicate they are shared. You would need to check if there is 240 volts between each red and black hot coming from each individual cable. Judging by black on one side red on the other I have an odd feeling no. If that is the case this panel is a fire hazard in that neutral current will not cancel out, rather it will add. So 15 or 20 amps on each hot will put 30 or 40amps on the neutral wires respectively. That in itself is a an issue that must be corrected.

Coupled with what looks to be a subpanel with grounds and neutrals on the same bar Id certainly call this out for correction by an electrician.

The home was a 1956 build and was the only panel located. The home had lots of clutter and stored items, including pictures, which is where this panel was found (behind one). I am going to recommend an electrician to evaluate as there were many other concerns with the electrical.

The meter rating appears to be 200. Whatever thats worth.
see attachment.

Not much :wink:

I know!

To sum it up it needs to be called out.

In summary this is what I would call out for evaluation by an electrician:

  1. No main disconnect could be located

  2. Neutral and ground on same bar/ no box bond if main panel

  3. Improper shared neutral circuits may be present

  4. Cutler Hammer breakers in what appears to be a Siemens/ITE/Murray panel.

Ok, So we go back to our training in terms of how to determine service size and we remember that we need to look at the rating of the enclosure, conductors labeled size, main circuit breaker or fuse (if present), and sometimes the meter (but the meter is never relied on…Ever)

If at any point you are not able to confirm enough of the elements you simply defer and note unable to determine due to the condition of installation.

Now, in this panel (again a classic case of lack of information) if this is a service panel then it is indeed lacking a key component…thats a disconnection means and overcurrent protection…

Why, because as other have stated, it appears that the neutrals and grounds are terminating on a common bus which is fine in service enclosures but not in remote distribution panels. Now, possible they started out with a 6 disconnect rule compliant installation and then morphed into a violation which is always possible on upgrades and unregulated service heavy-ups (changes).

Your best call here is not to dig overly into the weeds…since you are not able to determine the service size with certainty you simply defer the electrical service panel with notes that a licensed electrical contractor needs to review and determine if the wiring is correct due to concerns over being improperly installed. Let them weed through the details…

Just my thoughts on that…