Should bonding strap be removed?

[David A. Andersen]

Now I also don't think the GE breaker should be in this enclosure because it to me looks like it will not fit properly in the cover opening footprint but thats really just me shooting in the wind on that one.

They are using that breaker as a knockout opening filler! The bigger the better! LOL

In the last photograph, is that a reflection next to the neutral conductor or smoke from electrical arching?

Anyway, back to the subject, good call Paul!

[hectorsanchez]

I believe that the so-called MBJ is not an electrical MBJ, it looks like a piece of hardware and it looks like it is of steel, so the dissimilar, sheet metal screw (NG) issue and listing comes up.

If the home inspector sees Knob and Tube run in this manner that would be the easiest way to defer.

If there are persons here with many years of experience who take time to give some answers, they should not be consideered as those who are hogging the show.

I have lurked for a while, and if you want an opinion, I saw where a few of the answers and dissussions were all sort of one sided by some who boast of 1000's of posts!

Please be directed by the best and most qualified answers from those who are qualified to give them ....

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I can't believe that so far, nobody's pointed out the most obvious problem.

The panel has what appears to be many knob and tube circuits coming in one big romex connector.

300.15 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or Fittings —Where Required.
A box shall be installed at each outlet and switch
point for concealed knob-and-tube wiring.
Fittings and connectors shall be used only with the specific
wiring methods for which they are designed and listed.
Where the wiring method is conduit, tubing, Type AC
cable, Type MC cable, Type MI cable, nonmetallicsheathed
cable, or other cables, a box or conduit body shall
be installed at each conductor splice point, outlet point,
switch point, junction point, termination point, or pull
point, unless otherwise permitted in 300.15(A) through
(M).


312.5 Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket Enclosures.
Conductors entering enclosures within the scope of
this article shall be protected from abrasion and shall comply
with 312.5(A) through (C).
(B) Metal Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket
Enclosures. Where metal enclosures within the scope of
this article are installed with messenger supported wiring,
open wiring on insulators or concealed knob-and-tube wiring,
conductors shall enter through insulating bushings or,
in dry locations, through flexible tubing extending from the
last insulating support and firmly secured to the enclosure.

Because HIs don't quote code.

In our state, and HI can get in BIG trouble for attempting to do the AHJ's job, or by quoting AHJ code.

Enough stuff wrong with this panel to call it out, right off the bat. Defer to a sparky and let him fix it (and take the liability!).

That's what electricians are for .

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol.......jusy how many Alias names does this guy really have....

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

lol.......jusy how many Alias names does this guy really have....

vB tags every post with the user's IP. It's a pretty easy thing to figure out.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by hectorsanchez

If there are persons here with many years of experience who take time to give some answers, they should not be consideered as those who are hogging the show.

I have lurked for a while, and if you want an opinion, I saw where a few of the answers and dissussions were all sort of one sided by some who boast of 1000's of posts!

Please be directed by the best and most qualified answers from those who are qualified to give them ....

And that would be?

We are home inspectors. not code inspectors or electricians. A vast difference.

In our area, almost all the electricians are union, but do not have a state license (not required or even available). They think that union membership is the highest qualification, but only about 20% know the difference between grounding and bonding and what eash actually means. Go figure!

Those who post mere code, especially local AHJ codes and believe them to be the writ from Sinai are naive.

Those who quote NEC, but do not apply it to local conditions are teying to quote from Sinai, but really don't have a clue.

Those who post anonymously, with nothing to back up their posts, are just plain silly.

Explain in clear, simple, easy-to-understand language, with reasons that are easily explainable to the client (and the Realtor).

I just love when people take some codes and (pretend to be) experts.

Understanding is the key.

That is why this board exists and is its greatest strength.

Everything else is just a silly choad war.

Hope this helps;

[Marc D. Shunk]

The basic grounding and bonding malfunction was pretty much ironed out by the time I posted. I simply added about the many k&T's through a big NM connector. The related code was added for extra trivial information, for anyone who thinks that's interesting. At no point in time have I ever recommended anyone quote code. I do it for additional clarity, as the code is also written in english. Sorry you took the time to read it and found it so unhelpful. PM me with your email address, and I'll PayPal refund you for the time it took you to read that post.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

The basic grounding and bonding malfunction was pretty much ironed out by the time I posted. I simply added about the many k&T's through a big NM connector. The related code was added for extra trivial information, for anyone who thinks that's interesting. At no point in time have I ever recommended anyone quote code. I do it for clarity, as the code is also written in english. Sorry you took the time to read it. PM me with your email address, and I'll PayPal refund you for the time it took you to read that post.

Don't get me wrong.

I inspect in 93 different municipalities with 93 different sets of local AHJ codes.

I have read and (mostly) undertand them all. I also have read (mostly) the most current NEC requirements.

What do I call out and what do I not?

The state law is clear.

Call out anything that deals with 'significant risk of personal injury or property damage' based upon 'current residential construction standards' as 'significantly deficient'.

Chicago (city) requires EMT (with the bonding and grounding requirements, which most sparkys in our area do not understand!) while a mere 30 miles north, they (local AHJ) allow ROMEX.

What standard to us?. Understand, the state law calls for one standard.

Different areas, different laws and local AHJ codes (and many not accepting the most current NEC, like Chicago!).

Gotta do your best to protect the client, because they can sue you, regardless of the local AHJ or NEC.

I explain and educate and try to keep my clients alive so they can refer me.

I ain't an electrician, who only have to work to local AHJ codes (as their standard of practice and liability).

Home this clears thing up.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Home this clears thing up.

Yes, but which one of those jurisdictions would ever permit a bunch of K&T in loom through a big NM connector?

[William J. Decker]

7 different AHJs.

And, without actually being on site to check your conjecture, are you really sure of your analysis?

AHJs.

Chicago (assuming that the panel had not been replaced/updated, which requires that the entire electrical system be upgraded to current AHJ code.

Hillside, Golf, Dalton, Jefferson Park, Norrige, Stone Park, Willa Park.

There are a few others, I believe, but I would have to look it up.

My point is, do not assume that NEC is the "writ from G-d" or is adopted by the local AHJs. When in doubt, I call it and refer to an electrician. They can take the liability for saying it's OK when it isn't.

If they are smart (as one of your past posts seems to suggest), "baby needs a new pair of shoes".

Usuallym they just tell the client that I am crazy (because of 'grandfathering').

But, I have them put it in writing, with their license number (local or county, not state) and their insurance cert number.

I have had 17 cases where a sparky has said it is OK, and then the problem gets serious. In 4 cases, people were killed.

I was not held liable. 3 of the 4 (stupid) sparkys were sued and lost.

Nuff said.