Shower / Tub Stall Lighting

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Yeppers....notice that bad boy only costs about $ 20.00 dollars as well....not to awful bad.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Figured you may find this helpful in explaining it Pierre:

Location, Damp.


Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

Location, Dry.


A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.

Location, Wet.

Installations under ground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.

It is intended that the inside of a raceway in a wet location or a raceway installed underground be considered a wet location. Therefore, any conductors contained therein would be required to be suitable for wet locations.

See 300.6(D) for some examples of wet locations and 410.4(A) for information on luminaires installed in wet locations.

It is also important to clarrify which NEC we are talking about, in the 2005 NEC 410.4(D) was revised

410.4(D): Revised to require listing for damp locations or, where subject to shower spray, wet locations.

A revision of 410.4(D) clarifies that securely fastened luminaires installed in or on theceiling or wall are permitted to be located in the bathtub or shower area. Where they are subject to shower spray, the luminaires must be listed for a wet location.
Luminaires installed in the tub or shower zone and not subject to shower spray are required to be listed for use in a damp location. GFCI protection is required only where specified in the installation instructions for the luminaire.
The intent of 410.4(D) is to keep cord-connected, chain-hanging, or pendant luminaires and suspended fans out of the reach of an individual standing on a bathtub rim. The list of prohibited items recognizes that the same risk of electric shock is present for each one.

The use of the NEC code is to help clarrify pierres points...well done !

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Yeppers....notice that bad boy only costs about $ 20.00 dollars as well....not to awful bad.

I didn't note the price on the site I linked to. I know I only pay 7 bucks for that trim at the supply house.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

ahh....yeah the site had them for 20.00....remember we get em cheaper but some homeowners may want to buy them....and they would pay more.

Don't give our prices away Marc....we gotta make a profit

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

So given the example photo below......


Do you suggest that the assumption should be made that it is acceptable for a damp location?

or....

Do you recommend that the fixture be reviewed and confirmed as acceptable for the particular application?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Ok..I see that this has SAT for (1) good day and no one is willing to BITE the bullet on this one so i will BITE it for you....and get flamed in the process probably...BUT you know me as a straight shooter so here you go.

1.) The way it looks to me it could QUITE possibly have a open shower light ring ( the black area ) at the bulb itself....so I would say it could be a trim designed for it's location.

In the newer code's it is easier to PLACE a finger on it...as if you are using other than 2005 ( meaning 2002 or earlier ) it even more mirky.....so I don't really consider it something I would call out in an inspection personally.

We have to give the AHJ some credit here, they will do the final walk through and check things like this, while we know AHJ's can miss things in attics and crawls and so on...most of the time they do catch these things.

So with that said......I personally can't say I would call it out on anything at this point, and since you are not supposed to dismantle and so on it is a very hard all for the HI to make.

Now..if it was rusted or degraded and sings of such then it would be obvious but this looks rather new and the bulb is set back up pretty well...I believe atleast in MY mind that it is approved for this location at it stands how and I would be able to sleep at night with that assumption.

Not sure that is what you wanted to hear my friend...but I call it as I see it and I think you agree...thats the only way to be.......BUT your concern simply shows (1) great thing....your care and attention to detail for your client and THATS what we need more of.

In the safer than safe rhelm you are free to call out anything you wish, That is a right you will always have and if something just looks wrong to you never feel like you can't defer it.......there will always be an electrician waiting in the wings to verify for you my friend.......Keep up the GREAT work.

[Russel Ray]

What PA, CME, RMS, CMI, ES/E, CMEl, ICC, IAEI, and CEI said.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol...always BUSTIN my chops are ya Ray..Ray......

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

lol...always BUSTIN my chops are ya Ray..Ray......

Moi?

When it comes to reading about electricity, there are three people whose posts I read, well, dare I say religiously?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

ah......just not the ones with CME,CMI,RMS and all the other fancy after marks...lol....you know we make those up don't you...lol.. we get bored and start to create new things to put after our name.....

Ohh........I have gone downhill...but just back 10 years ago I also had D.D behind mine......NOW...I wont go down explaining that change of life.....and Mr. Decker...leave it alone....

[Joseph Hagarty, CMI]

Originally Posted by jhagarty

New Construction.

These were installed in all areas (4 Bathrooms).

Standard flood / spot bulbs with standard trim housing. Enclosures not sealed / covered.

Paul,

This particular home had a large number of recessed lighting fixtures throughout the home (approx 60-80).

No difference could be visibly determined between the Bathroom fixtures and any other fixture (Bedroom, Hall, Family Room, Entry Foyer, etc.)

I have seen / detected the referenced seal...

http://www.csnlighting.com/Progress-...ml#ProdDetails


...around the fixture in other homes but it was not present in this case. The space between the trim and the bulb was open into the body of the can fixture.

Can the differences between generic recessed fixtures and those rated for damp locations be visibly determined in general?

[Greg Veal]

Joesph

That installation would never pass BID Final Inspection in Ga., IF, the inspector was doing his job.
I call it everytime I see this type installation.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Joseph,

In new construction unless the inspector can verify it is listed for Damp Locations or retro-fitted with a trim that make it comply to the requirement it would be turned down in most cases. However, in cycles before 2005 it was not nearly as clear.......but it is being cleared up more and more with each cycle.
Again we simply solve the issue by placing a Vapor Trim on it and it is fine, Certainly within your rhelm to recommend a vapor trim and unless they prove you otherwise.....give them the option because in the end it is there choice and a vapor trim suggestion wont harm anyone.....