Siemens and Square D relationship

[Chris Ivy]

I have a Siemens panel that has Sqaure D breakers installed. My thought proceess has allways been refer to the panel ,which calls for the use of Siemens breakers. I had a list of "classified" breakers at one time that cross referenced which breakers were approved for each panel manufactorer but have lost it. I can easily refer to the panel specs but wonderded if anyone had any thoughts on this.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

If you're referring to "your" panel, make your own decision. There is probably little to fear.

If it's a client's whose home you inspected and the breakers present do not agree with the panel manufacturer's label, I call it out every time.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

If you're referring to "your" panel, make your own decision. There is probably little to fear.

If it's a client's whose home you inspected and the breakers present do not agree with the panel manufacturer's label, I call it out every time.

Care to explain this reasoning... or is it just that he won't bother to sue himself ???

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jjonas

Care to explain this reasoning... or is it just that he won't bother to sue himself ???

The manufacturer says to use their breakers. To do otherwise is a violation of their instructions, which they say can cause damage to equipment, cause a fire, voids the warranty, etc. Who am I to say otherwise?

Analogy: I've seen plenty of b-vents in contact with combustible materials and never seen the 1st scorch mark on anything (even a birds nest one time). But I call it out because contact violates the manufacturer's instructions.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

The manufacturer says to use their breakers. To do otherwise is a violation of their instructions, which they say can cause damage to equipment, cause a fire, voids the warranty, etc. Who am I to say otherwise?

Analogy: I've seen plenty of b-vents in contact with combustible materials and never seen the 1st scorch mark on anything (even a birds nest one time). But I call it out because contact violates the manufacturer's instructions.

That is exactly my point. Why do you state "There is probably little to fear" if his own personal panel, but than tell him to CYA on a clients panel. So, to hell with the standards on your own home (future homeowners beware), just cover your arse so you don't get sued on a clients home. So are you wearing your "personal business hat" or your "AHJ hat" when you make that kind of statement???

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

I go by the label on the panel. Many panel labels have been destroyed or are so faded or inaccessible they are not legible. If that is the case, I just refer to an electrician and recommend they put their findings down on their company letterhead with license number and signature. Let them absorb the liability.

I know that Square D voids their warranty if you use "classified" breakers by another manufacturer even though they make "classified" breakers for use in other panels. Other manufacturers may do the same.

I am not going to spend additional time researching each individual panel or breaker. Refer it off, let the electrician remove the breaker and check for labels and go from there.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jjonas

That is exactly my point. Why do you state "There is probably little to fear" if his own personal panel, but than tell him to CYA on a clients panel. So, to hell with the standards on your own home (future homeowners beware), just cover your arse so you don't get sued on a clients home. So are you wearing your "personal business hat" or your "AHJ hat" when you make that kind of statement???

Not sure I understand your question. There are many things about my personal home that would get gigged in a home inspection, but I've chosen to accept the risk.

[Stephen W. Stanczyk]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Not sure I understand your question. There are many things about my personal home that would get gigged in a home inspection, but I've chosen to accept the risk.

Harry Homeowners younger brother Joe?

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

If you're referring to "your" panel, make your own decision. There is probably little to fear.

If it's a client's whose home you inspected and the breakers present do not agree with the panel manufacturer's label, I call it out every time.

Let me make it clear for you Joe...

You tell Chris an improper breaker is okay in his home, but not in his clients home.

Is Chris your competition???

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jjonas

Let me make it clear for you Joe...

You tell Chris an improper breaker is okay in his home, but not in his clients home.

Is Chris your competition???

I think I told him to make his own decision. Just like I decided that I can live with my deck pickets 6" apart.

[Jim Port]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

I think I told him to make his own decision. Just like I decided that I can live with my deck pickets 6" apart.

Not to be arguementative, but why would you knowingly violate established safety standards? Somehow at your house a child won't fall through but at other houses they would need additional protection of the tighter spacings? Will these items be fixed when the house is sold to the next owners?

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

Not to be arguementative, but why would you knowingly violate established safety standards? Somehow at your house a child won't fall through but at other houses they would need additional protection of the tighter spacings? Will these items be fixed when the house is sold to the next owners?

I guess he also never has vistors.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by civy

I have a Siemens panel that has Sqaure D breakers installed. My thought proceess has allways been refer to the panel ,which calls for the use of Siemens breakers. I had a list of "classified" breakers at one time that cross referenced which breakers were approved for each panel manufactorer but have lost it. I can easily refer to the panel specs but wonderded if anyone had any thoughts on this.

Classified Circuit Breakers

Background
http://www.sea.siemens.com/us//Products/Residential-Electrical/Product/Circuit-Breakers/Pages/Classified_Circuit_Breakers.aspx?rc=1






Eaton
UL Classified Circuit Breaker Replacement Chart
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%20%22%20classified%20%22%20break ers%20made%20by%20eaton&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CEMQF jAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eaton.com%2Fecm%2Fidcplg% 3FIdcService%3DGET_FILE%26dID%3D296934&ei=s3HZTv2a Hse4tgeBxpntAQ&usg=AFQjCNE-TmLLmEgqfPf9ASjFI-DwemqMow

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

Not to be arguementative, but why would you knowingly violate established safety standards? Somehow at your house a child won't fall through but at other houses they would need additional protection of the tighter spacings? Will these items be fixed when the house is sold to the next owners?

Jim, let me inspect your house. I GUARANTEE you I will find something wrong. I suspect you might change your tune and may find it an acceptable cost benefit to live with the defect. You people who think everyone really needs to fix every defect a home inspector identifies are living in fantasy land.

[William T. Misegades]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Jim, let me inspect your house. I GUARANTEE you I will find something wrong. I suspect you might change your tune and may find it an acceptable cost benefit to live with the defect. You people who think everyone really needs to fix every defect a home inspector identifies are living in fantasy land.

It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the homes lived in/owned by construction professionals' (all trades included) are in worse shape either because of the lack of time to get them fixed or because of the knowledge that some of the defects are not that big of a deal.