Siemens Panel

[apolillo]

I had a new Siemens panel with four Square D breakers installed. The panel did not list any Square D breakers for use in the panel. I wrote it up as a defect. Just wanted to know if any of the Electrical gurus think it is ok to mix these two brands. They were not loose and of course they were passed by the city inspector. No anti-oxidant paste on the AL wires.

Anatol

[Speedy Petey]

I don't remember but I think HOM breakers are classified for use in BR panels. I have to check that one.

Noalox is not code required. It's just a good idea.

[Peter W. Bennett]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

I don't remember but I think HOM breakers are classified for use in BR panels. I have to check that one.

Noalox is not code required. It's just a good idea.

I beg to differ.
reviewed an older code check and under 1999 NEC (110-14 ) and 2002 NEC ( 110.14 ) BOTH REQUIRE anti-oxidant on AL conductors
Peter

[Greg Fretwell]

Can you cite that?
My copy says

110.14 Electrical Connections.
Because of different characteristics of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs shall be identified for the material of the conductor and shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), unless the device is identified for the purpose and conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment.

There may be something in the installation instructions for that lug, making it a 110.3(B) issue but it has to say you shall or you must, not just that it is recomended. That is how the code works.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by pbennett1

reviewed an older code check and. . .

That would be your problem right there. Code Check is a great reference tool, but they often contain errors or "misleading" information. You should always confirm any Code Check reference by looking at the actual code to which it refers.

Greg's reference is a great example of a misleading reference by Code Check Electrical, page 10.

[Mike Whitt]

These same words goes back as far as the 1968 cycle.

[relliott]

Interesting side bar if I understood the answer.

[relliott]

Short answer is yes.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=58733

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by relliott

Short answer is yes.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=58733

About the breakers, thanks Robert.

And thanks guys for the back up on the Noalox thing. That's exactly what I meant.
I was out last night.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Lets understand this a little more....

"Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment. "

Not that they are required...but " where employed" they shall be suitable for their use.......lets also remember with many brands we do find compounds for use with AL conductors and believe it or not they make one for CU conductors as well.......you dont want to use a CU compound in AL conductors....defects the purpose........

I have asked Eaton directly on this to clear up the questions a long time ago, they do not test their panelboards with NoAlox compound.....the ratings are not based on the use of it at all........BUT it is important to note that on their disconnects you will see in the verbiage that NoAlox or similar compounds are required...if it is on the label saying to use it...then you have to use it and if it does not say it on the panel label you dont.......

BUT...as a side note.....when I do a service with AL conductors...I use it.......why?....because I buy into the hype...

[Paul W. Abernathy]

OH....BTW...........I do see where ALOT of inspectors turn down a job because of not having NoAlox......and when I consult them I always say why would you turn it down for that......the reponse is this " its the way we have always done it "

Then I reply........fine....I would suggest you be more concerned with electricians not using the proper " torque " settings on lugs and screws before I would concern myself over NoAlox.....if you are going to concern yourself with one......then factor in the other which if you believe NoAlox works ( and it does..when installed right )....then factor in the issue of over torquing and under torquing......"

How many electricians today carry a Torque Wrench to the jobsite.....I do seminars for Eaton all over the country...in fact I was just in Philadelphia and Chantilly last week.....guess how many carry a torque wrench in the truck.....about 50%.....guess how many said they have used it.....5 %

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

BUT...as a side note.....when I do a service with AL conductors...I use it.......why?....because I buy into the hype...

You are in good company my friend.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

......the reponse is this " its the way we have always done it "

I always love that response.

Originally Posted by pabernathy

How many electricians today carry a Torque Wrench to the jobsite.....I do seminars for Eaton all over the country...in fact I was just in Philadelphia and Chantilly last week.....guess how many carry a torque wrench in the truck.....about 50%.....guess how many said they have used it.....5 %

I do. I have a 3/8" orque wrench right in one of my tool boxes. I do use it, but alas, not all the time.
I have done comparison tests and I have to say, my "feel" is very close to correct torque.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Speedy........you are renown for being the "Torque Master"....Which is rare among electricians these days...I see installs where the electrician torqued lugs so tight it causes more issues than being loose......theo"torque"ly speaking that is.......

[Speedy Petey]

Obviously my wrench is broken. The "T" fell off.