Spliced Ground

[Mike Hazelwood]

I found a spliced Ground in the main panel. I called it out and just wanted to make sure I was correct. I have never come across this before.

[jtedesco1]

(C) Continuous.

Grounding electrode conductor(s) shall be
installed in one continuous length without a splice or joint
except as permitted in (1) through (4):

(1) Splicing shall be permitted only by irreversible
compression-type connectors listed as grounding and
bonding equipment or by the exothermic welding
process.

(2) Sections of busbars shall be permitted to be connected
together to form a grounding electrode conductor.

(3) Bonding jumper(s) from grounding electrode(s) and
grounding electrode conductor(s) shall be permitted to
be connected to an aluminum or copper busbar not less
than 6 mm × 50 mm (1⁄4 in. × 2 in.). The busbar shall be
securely fastened and shall be installed in an accessible
location. Connections shall be made by a listed connector
or by the exothermic welding process.

(4) Where aluminum busbars are used, the installation

shall comply with 250.64(A).

[Barry Adair]

A little housekeeping wouldn't hurt either

[Frank P. Newman]

It is defnintely not a job for a wire nut !! However, most HIs would probably not catch the distinction as to the type of connection permitted. A very good education thread for us all.

Thanks

[David P. Valley]

Is that dirt or just a massive build-up of dust over the years?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

No.....that looks like a standard wirenut.

Remember the concept is this......if lighting or transient voltages as well as potential higher voltage sources ( how ever you would like to call it) gets imposed onto the GEC and hits that wirenut it will melt open and defeat its purpose.....now and in the future.

Read Joes NEC statements.......notice all methods maintain a constant connection during the event....a wirenut does not in this situation.

[bzimbelman]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

No.....that looks like a standard wirenut.

Remember the concept is this......if lighting or transient voltages as well as potential higher voltage sources ( how ever you would like to call it) gets imposed onto the GEC and hits that wirenut it will melt open and defeat its purpose.....now and in the future.

Read Joes NEC statements.......notice all methods maintain a constant connection during the event....a wirenut does not in this situation.

So Paul / Electrical Gurus of NACHI -

When exactly is a wirenut allowed in a service panel?

I see them quite a bit in the following circumstances:

1. A branch circuit is too short due to a replaced service panel or moving a breaker to another location. So, it's one 12awg from the circuit and one 12awg to the 20amp 120 breaker.

2. Two 15 or 20 amp branch circuits are needed but they only have one breaker of the appropriate size (usually double lugged but in rare cases), their will be 2 12awg from the circuits and one 12awg to the 20amp 120 breaker.

I don't see them often on neutral or ground wires, but I do see them double, triple, ... lugged quite often.

Thanks!

Happy Holidays All!

[Jim Port]

Brian,

It is not that wirenuts are not allowed in panels. The problem shown here is with its' use to extend the grounding conductor. Please read post #2 to see the Code accepted methods if a grounding conductor needs to be spliced.

Wirenuts used to extend the branch circuit wiring as in your two examples are fine. There are limits on cross-sectional fill area, like how many wires can be in a box, however, you would really need quite a few connections in the same area to exceed this rule.

[pdickerson]

This is a potentially confusing thread. The GROUNDING ELECTRODE CONDUCTOR shall not be spliced except as noted in JT's post above. An EQUIPMENT GROUND can be spliced using a wire nut, as can a grounded or ungrounded conductor.

There is no prohibition to using wire nuts in the serivce panel.

[bzimbelman]

Thanks guys, just wanted to make sure I was understanding it...

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by pdickerson

This is a potentially confusing thread. The GROUNDING ELECTRODE CONDUCTOR shall not be spliced except as noted in JT's post above. An EQUIPMENT GROUND can be spliced using a wire nut, as can a grounded or ungrounded conductor.

There is no prohibition to using wire nuts in the serivce panel.

Thanks, this is very important, the correct terms and definitions should always be used, especially in any reports.

The issue about the splicing in any cabinet is better described by the rule:

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol.....typical students of the Code...lo

1) nothing was ever said about wirenuts in a panel. The statement was made that the wirenut shown does not meet the requirements of the GEC being with splices....

2) The NEC prohibits splices in a panel enclosure with switches or overcurrent devices...But makes allowance for them if the space is provided and does not exceed 75 percent of the enclosures cross sectional values......most panels will allow for this space so it is not an issue.

Again its important to understand the thread.....someone i believe implied a statement that splices are not allowed in a panel...however i digress.....either way this splice (wirenut) is not allowed because this connection is not allowed.

I can also promise you that in the event of lightning imposed on that GEC......that splice will melt like butta.....thus removing the required connection to the GE.

again this thread should not have morphed into a wirenut in panels issue.........by now all HI's should know splices in a panel are allowed....hard to ever have a service change without any.

[Greg Fretwell]

If you really had "lightning" on that GEC it wouldn't matter if it was CadWelded. Lightning will not make a 180 degree turn. It would just shoot out the end. That is why air terminal conductors need to be run as straight as possible with very wide radius turns. Generally you will not really get lightning in a panel and if you do it will be toast. I did take a direct hit on the air terminal above my weather station this summer with minimal damage.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

If you really had "lightning" on that GEC it wouldn't matter if it was CadWelded. Lightning will not make a 180 degree turn. It would just shoot out the end. That is why air terminal conductors need to be run as straight as possible with very wide radius turns. Generally you will not really get lightning in a panel and if you do it will be toast. I did take a direct hit on the air terminal above my weather station this summer with minimal damage.

I am reminded of this rule:

"280.12 Routing of Surge Arrester Grounding Conductors.

The conductor used to connect the surge arrester to line, bus, or equipment and to a grounding conductor connection point as provided in 280.21 shall not be any longer than necessary and shall avoid unnecessary bends."

. and on another note, the original picture shows signs of dirt in the bottom, this could be because of a flood, and if so, the weep holes in the bottom of the cabinet may be plugged up.

[gporter]

Thanks Paul