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Electrical Inspections Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes receptacles, panels, wiring, etc.

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  #1  
Old 10/5/09, 4:38 PM
Ben J. Gromicko's Avatar
Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default SOP requirement

standard-practice-requirement-img_0180.jpg
According to Residential SOP:
2.7. Electrical
II. The inspector is not required to:
C. remove panelboard cabinet covers or dead front covers, if they
are not readily accessible.

So therefore, if they ARE readily accessible, an inspector is required to remove panelboard dead front covers.

Agree?
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  #2  
Old 10/5/09, 4:44 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgromicko View Post
Attachment 32398
According to Residential SOP:
2.7. Electrical
II. The inspector is not required to:
C. remove panelboard cabinet covers or dead front covers, if they
are not readily accessible.

So therefore, if they ARE readily accessible, an inspector is required to remove panelboard dead front covers.

Agree?
Disagree.

There are safety considerations that must come first.

I will not remove a panelboard dead front cover that is holding in place 40 loose stablock breaker switches. Nor will I remove a panelboard cover that is rusted, wet or hot to the touch, for starters.

In other words, it is at the discretion of the inspector as to whether he will removed the panelboard dead front cover or not.



James H. Bushart

Professional Building Analyst, BPI
Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas
314-803-2167
Inspecting in Aurora, Branson, Carthage, Granby, Joplin, Kimberling City, Monett, Mount Vernon, Neosho, Nixa, Purdy, Reed Spring, Republic, Springfield and surrounding areas.

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  #3  
Old 10/5/09, 4:53 PM
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Jeffrey R. Pope Jeffrey R. Pope is offline
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Default Re: SOP requirement

http://www.nachi.org/glossary.htm

Accessible: Can be approached or entered by the inspector safely, without difficulty, fear or danger.

Answer to your question - Yes.



IF YOUR INSPECTOR IS NOT USING THERMAL IMAGING, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE ®
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
Santa Clarita CA
(661) 212-0738
Santa Clarita Home Inspection
http://www.MyInspector.net


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  #4  
Old 10/5/09, 4:56 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope View Post
http://www.nachi.org/glossary.htm

Accessible: Can be approached or entered by the inspector safely, without difficulty, fear or danger.

Answer to your question - Yes.
Ditto
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  #5  
Old 10/5/09, 4:58 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope View Post
http://www.nachi.org/glossary.htm

Accessible: Can be approached or entered by the inspector safely, without difficulty, fear or danger.

Answer to your question - Yes.
NEC 2005, Article 100

readily accessible: Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Answer to Ben's question.....still "No".



James H. Bushart

Professional Building Analyst, BPI
Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas
314-803-2167
Inspecting in Aurora, Branson, Carthage, Granby, Joplin, Kimberling City, Monett, Mount Vernon, Neosho, Nixa, Purdy, Reed Spring, Republic, Springfield and surrounding areas.


Last edited by jbushart; 10/5/09 at 5:02 PM..
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  #6  
Old 10/5/09, 5:08 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
NEC 2005, Article 100

readily accessible: Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Answer to Ben's question.....still "No".
LOL I think I'll have to side with Jim on this one. However question is in a court of law would they side with the industry standard definition or would they side with the NEC definition? Ben if you really want to know I think they SOP needs to be relooked at. Shouldn't be any questions at all by now. We should all have a industry standard set in stone that we all are required to follow. Black and white delete the grey.



Bill Boerner
STL Home Inspection Services
Serving St. Louis/Surrounding
(314) 805-2137
billy.boerner@gmail.com
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  #7  
Old 10/5/09, 5:11 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

NACHI SOP

4.31. Readily Accessible: An item or component that is, in the judgment of the inspector, capable of being safely observed without the removal of obstacles, detachment or disengagement of connecting or securing devices, or other unsafe or difficult procedures to gain access.


The safety considerations are in the definition.
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  #8  
Old 10/5/09, 5:18 PM
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Jeffrey R. Pope Jeffrey R. Pope is offline
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Default Re: SOP requirement

The definitions provided by the inspection association should be applied in conjunction with the standards of the association.



IF YOUR INSPECTOR IS NOT USING THERMAL IMAGING, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE ®
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
Santa Clarita CA
(661) 212-0738
Santa Clarita Home Inspection
http://www.MyInspector.net


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  #9  
Old 10/5/09, 5:33 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope View Post
The definitions provided by the inspection association should be applied in conjunction with the standards of the association.
Perhaps...but as Ben points out on another thread, "any confusion and the client wins".

How many clients do you have who know the NACHI definitions by heart?

I would use, for electrical terms, the terminology of the electrical industry...and so forth....in communicating with anyone outside of the association.

Others may disagree.



James H. Bushart

Professional Building Analyst, BPI
Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas
314-803-2167
Inspecting in Aurora, Branson, Carthage, Granby, Joplin, Kimberling City, Monett, Mount Vernon, Neosho, Nixa, Purdy, Reed Spring, Republic, Springfield and surrounding areas.

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  #10  
Old 10/5/09, 5:35 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmaday View Post
NACHI SOP

4.31. Readily Accessible: An item or component that is, in the judgment of the inspector, capable of being safely observed without the removal of obstacles, detachment or disengagement of connecting or securing devices, or other unsafe or difficult procedures to gain access.


The safety considerations are in the definition.

While this definition addresses the safety of accessing the panelbox, it does not address removing its cover.



James H. Bushart

Professional Building Analyst, BPI
Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas
314-803-2167
Inspecting in Aurora, Branson, Carthage, Granby, Joplin, Kimberling City, Monett, Mount Vernon, Neosho, Nixa, Purdy, Reed Spring, Republic, Springfield and surrounding areas.

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  #11  
Old 10/5/09, 5:46 PM
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Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
Disagree.

There are safety considerations that must come first.

I will not remove a panelboard dead front cover that is holding in place 40 loose stablock breaker switches. Nor will I remove a panelboard cover that is rusted, wet or hot to the touch, for starters.

In other words, it is at the discretion of the inspector as to whether he will removed the panelboard dead front cover or not.
That's what readily accessible means and is defined as such.
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  #12  
Old 10/5/09, 5:48 PM
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
Perhaps...but as Ben points out on another thread, "any confusion and the client wins".

How many clients do you have who know the NACHI definitions by heart?

I would use, for electrical terms, the terminology of the electrical industry...and so forth....in communicating with anyone outside of the association.

Others may disagree.

None.

But if we refer to the SOP in our PIA and report, we should indeed use those definitions.

More confusing would be if you did not reference the NEC and relied on those definitions. Further confusion if you used some definitions from any code and some from the SOP.

All that aside, Ben seems to be hinting at somethings, wonder what they could be?
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  #13  
Old 10/5/09, 5:50 PM
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rmaday rmaday is offline
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
While this definition addresses the safety of accessing the panelbox, it does not address removing its cover.
And we are not required to remove the covers IF they (the covers) are not redily accessible.
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  #14  
Old 10/5/09, 5:51 PM
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Ben J. Gromicko Ben J. Gromicko is offline
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Default Re: SOP requirement

The SOP seems to be implying to me this single point:

If the panelboard is readily accessible, an inspector is required to remove the dead front cover.
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  #15  
Old 10/5/09, 6:06 PM
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James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: SOP requirement

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgromicko View Post
The SOP seems to be implying to me this single point:

If the panelboard is readily accessible, an inspector is required to remove the dead front cover.

I cannot do an inspection without removing the dead front cover.

Still....this is NACHI. Without sounding too much like Joe Tedesco, I have read posts on this message board that convince me that not everyone should be removing the dead front cover.

If they judge themselves accordingly, nothing we do should compel them to do otherwise, IMO.



James H. Bushart

Professional Building Analyst, BPI
Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas
314-803-2167
Inspecting in Aurora, Branson, Carthage, Granby, Joplin, Kimberling City, Monett, Mount Vernon, Neosho, Nixa, Purdy, Reed Spring, Republic, Springfield and surrounding areas.

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