Stray Voltage can kill

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

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Cows acting as coal mine canaries for stray volts


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Updated: Fri. Oct. 20 2006 9:27 AM ET
TORONTO — Canada's dairy cows are acting as "canaries in coal mines" when it comes to detecting stray electricity in the ground that poses a significant threat to human health, experts said Thursday.

While research and courtroom victories suggest stray voltage from power lines can negatively impact on a cow's milk production, there's also a documented case of it claiming a human life.

Cattle herds, to the dismay of dairy farmers, are on the frontlines of detecting the problem, said Magda Havas of Trent University in Peterborough, Ont.

"We normally hear about this from dairy farmers, because the cow becomes the canary in the coal mine," said Havas, a professor of environmental science.

"The cow, because they milk it twice a day . . .they record how much milk (they) give. If there's a change in that 24-hour period, they can pick it up instantly."

The problem lies in the neutral wires on hydro transmission lines which carry electricity back to the transformer to complete the circuit.

If there isn't a neutral wire, or the one present can't handle the load, then power will stray - travelling through yards, buildings, fields, animals and humans on its way back to the transformer.

"It would knock our cows down," said Lee Montgomery, a former dairy farmer from southwestern Ontario.

"We're were getting (power surges) over 1,000 volts, and I've got the tapes to prove it, I've still got 'em."

In the late 1970s, Montgomery went from being one of the top dairy producers in the Chatham-Kent region of Ontario to ranking near the bottom.

"He went from being a top quantity as well as top quality, then he went right down," said Barry Fraser, a former Ontario agriculture ministry worker assigned to monitor the problems on Montgomery's farm.

That work led the ministry to concede that stray electricity could be a factor. Montgomery sued the province's giant power utility, then called Ontario Hydro, and settled out of court.

"(The power utilities) fail to consider what effect (stray voltage) would have for people and animals who stand on that ground and are exposed to that current," said Havas.

Last week, a jury in Washington State ordered a local power utility to pay $1.1 million in damages to a dairy farmer who argued ground current devastated his business.

The problem isn't solely the concern of farmers.

Two years ago in New York City, a woman walking her dogs was killed by stray voltage when she stepped on a steel plate.

"We want to make sure that it doesn't happen here," said Havas.

"We want to get rid of the problem so that it helps farm animals, it helps farmers but it helps people in urban areas as well, before there's a death (in Canada)."

In the majority of cases, adding a neutral wire where there isn't already one, or a second wire to help handle the load, would solve the problem, said Havas.

To that end, legislation calling for fines of up to $1,000 for each day a utility fails to act on complaints of stray electricity passed second reading Thursday in the Ontario legislature.

The private member's bill originated from the backbenches of the Liberal government. Ontario Energy Minister Dwight Duncan said he was "glad" to see a discussion on the "little-known issue."

"We don't have many neutral wires in the province right now," said Duncan.

"We take advice from the legislature, from the people of Ontario, (but) I can't say we'd move on it in a fast time frame."

The problem of stray electricity isn't confined to farm fields and city streets, said Havas.

"When you turn on that tap to get a drink of water, to do your dishes, to have a shower, there is current flowing through from the tap through your body," she said.

"The way it comes into our house is through the plumbing. Everything is grounded to plumbing, that's how our code works."

Electricians measuring stray electricity coming through shower heads have found levels strong enough to seriously harm, or even kill, people, said Havas.



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[phinsperger]

Ok. Now if its coming from the ground what do measure it in referance to?

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by phinsperger

Ok. Now if its coming from the ground what do measure it in referance to?

I am just guessing I do not know .
I would think a large amount of this could be induced via metal fences .
I guess in order to kill a cow it must be a differential from where the front feet are to the back feet .
Or I could be from the Cows Nose touching the fence to ground.
I have heard of differentials so little but a horse can feel it front feet to back and not go through an area .
I touched a freezer in a local Grocery store and felt a tingle . Reported to management and got a meter Difference from Freezer to strips in the floor was 14 volts and I could feel it they thought it was not enough to be concerned about .
Tried to tell him 12 volts can kill and they laughed .

......... Cookie

[Speedy Petey]

The problem lies in the neutral wires on hydro transmission lines which carry electricity back to the transformer to complete the circuit.

If there isn't a neutral wire, or the one present can't handle the load, then power will stray - travelling through yards, buildings, fields, animals and humans on its way back to the transformer.

What a load of hooey!!

The regular current DOES NOT return back to the transformer "through yards, buildings, fields, animals and humans" if the lines "can't handle the load".
I'm no line worker but I know this is absurd.

These are faults, and should be treated as such.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

What a load of hooey!!

The regular current DOES NOT return back to the transformer "through yards, buildings, fields, animals and humans" if the lines "can't handle the load".
I'm no line worker but I know this is absurd.

These are faults, and should be treated as such.

There has been to many reported cases over many years for me to call it hooey
This is not new it has been reported many times over the last 50 years that I know of .It seems horses are more sensitive then other animals .
Just some below

http://archives.foodsafetynetwork.ca...net_nov_29.htm

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../bc/180500.htm

http://www.kencove.com/ResourcesD.php?recordID=1

http://www.uwex.edu/uwmril/pdf/Review_of_literature.pdf

http://www.strayvoltage.org/board/messages/3/3.html

http://www.pscfo.com/2006PSCFO_Resolutions.pdf

[Michael Larson]

Here is a better document and some conclusions.

What Do We Know About Stray Voltage

The Science Advisors gave three main findings in their report:
• "We have not found credible scientific evidence to verify the specific claim that currents in the earth
or associated electrical parameters such as voltages, magnetic fields and electric fields, are causes of
poor health and milk production in dairy herds."
• "At the present time, there is no basis for altering the PUC-approved standards by which electric
utilities distribute power onto or in the vicinity of individual dairy farms."
• "There are many well-documented non-electrical factors that are known and accepted by the
scientific community, and by most farmers as well, to cause dairy cow health and production
problems. Among the most noteworthy factors are poor nutrition, poor cow comfort and hygiene, and
low or no use of vaccinations and related preventive veterinary practices. These factors should
always be addressed by those who want to improve performance of dairy herds."

More Helpful Links

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Thanks Mike the more I learn about electricity the more I realize how little I know .
No wonder so many have trouble understanding what it is and what it does.

An unknown force governed by known laws.
.

........ Cookie

[Speedy Petey]

Roy, I don't have time to read those this morning, but I'll just say I was not implying "something" wasn't happening. I was just saying it is absolutely NOT the "current returning to the transformer through animals, people, etc" as that article stated. Articles like that make me laugh.


I'll also add, I DO think the whole "EMF" scare IS hooey. I live near a very "hippie" town. One lady actually had me remove the antennas from her wireless router. She didn't want the radio waves "flying all over her house". They gave her a headache. She was serious!
I then asked her if she had a cell phone or cordless phone. Her husband almost smacked me.

All those EMF claims were documented, and then were debunked by experts. I'm not saying there is nothing going on but I am saying it is nothing that is bad enough to do anything detrimental to a living body.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol...well now speedy.....it could effect the human body if you work around it a lifetime. Studies have shown that the effects of working with electricity and the magnetic fields associated with it DOES have some effect on us Electricians....exactly WHAT effect we have no real idea right now I guess...lol

Now I did not read the article....but from what I gather it has something to do with animals and people and so on and return currents....well.....I agree thats a bit hokey....maybe I should read the article first...lol

But on the comment of it not effecting cows and milk production....they have plenty of studies with the IEEE in regards to cows and equipotential planes and effects of something as small as 1-3 volts they can detect and will stress them out which in turn reduces milk production....but thats simply a by product of their stress.....

Ok.....Ok....I will go back and read the article since to be honest I have quite a bit of experience in talking about EMF....so let me read it when I get my coffee this morning.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Ok....I have now read the article.....what concerns me is the constant use of the NEUTRAL term.....they make a statement like this:

"We don't have many neutral wires in the province right now," said Duncan.

Which begs me to ask....how on earth does the electricity get back to the source....ahhh...maybe thats the question.

Or....

"If there isn't a neutral wire, or the one present can't handle the load, then power will stray - travelling through yards, buildings, fields, animals and humans on its way back to the transformer. "

I think his comment was taken out of context....I think he means poor animals and humans get in the WAY of this path.......I would have to see the video of COWS dropping like flies to buy that portion....

Now........get into a improperly bonded swiming pool in that area and well....quite possible...lol

or....

"We're were getting (power surges) over 1,000 volts, and I've got the tapes to prove it, I've still got 'em."

All I can say is....YOUTUBE FELLA.....YOUTUBE.........

Now as for New York......he made this statement:

"Two years ago in New York City, a woman walking her dogs was killed by stray voltage when she stepped on a steel plate.

"We want to make sure that it doesn't happen here," said Havas.

Honestly......the problem there is they dont have an effective fault current path and the plate stays energized......call it what you will but thats simply poor design in regards to new york...solve the problem....run EGC's as needed.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Ok.....Ok....I will go back and read the article since to be honest I have quite a bit of experience in talking about EMF....so let me read it when I get my coffee this morning.

What do you think happened to me ,to me ,to me ,to me,to me ,to me ,to me ,to me,to me ,to me ,to me ,to me,to me ,to me ,to me ,to me,to me ,to me ,to me ,to me.
I'm ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,ok,

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol.......I hear ya Young Man.......yep I have the same effects......it's the EMF...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL....syndrome.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Here is a good link to a site about EMF for those who want to read about it....http://infoventures.com/emf/

[Michael Larson]

Paul,
Would you mind reading the
"What Do We Know About Stray Voltage"
link in post #6 and commentig on it?

I'm mobile and can't post links easily.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

yeah I will read it........give me a bit however as I have to go urinate...