Subpanel Bonding Screw

[away]

Thanks to all for the help.

I will leave the recommendation to remove the screw just so nobody torques it in for good measure.

Gerry,
Yes, this was an electrician, it is a new construction so I can only assume nobody got in there and goofed around. As to why they didn't pull the jumper, you got me. Often, in the bigger homes and especially in new construction, they will just have two main panels rather than a main and a sub. Maybe it was a newbie electrician and he didn't think to remove the bar? Or maybe the electrician did it that way initially but the AHJ freaked out when he didn't see the two bonded and the missing screw and made them put it in there.

Joe,
Yes both panels were installed "upside down". There are a few other issues that I found with the main panel that makes you wonder just how hard it is to get licensed as an electrician in Texas. But this one is not as bad as others I have seen. I think the bigger problem is the AHJ not doing there jobs as carefully as they should.

I attached a couple other photos for your enjoyment. The first two are the upper portion of the subpanel. The next three are the main panel top to bottom. I have until tomorrow morning to get this report out and can check back before I finalize it, in case you or anyone else finds something.

Larry,
There is a bushing on that one, I checked, but thanks for the reminder. In the main panel there is some unbushed Romex that I didn't get in the first go round of report writing.

Paul,
They only had the two ends wrapped with the white tape. The entire length consists of about 24" or so, maybe they just said fuggetaboutit and didn't bother.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

This section was revised to read:

Enclosures for overcurrent devices must be mounted in a vertical position unless it is impracticable. Circuit breaker enclosures can be installed horizontally if the circuit breaker is installed in accordance with the requirements of 240.81. Figure 240–3

Intent: The change restores the “impracticable” rule, which had been in the NEC for over 70 years and was inadvertently removed during the 1999 rewrite of Article 240.

Author’s Comment: Section 240.81 specifies that where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the “up” position of the handle must be in the “on” position. So in effect, an enclosure that contains one circuit breaker can be mounted horizontally; however an enclosure containing a panelboard with circuit breakers would not be permitted to be horizontal.

IE: This was to furthur explain what Greg was talking about in regards to panel breakers...Courtesy of Mike Holt Ent.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

The term "natural" was deleted and a FPN was added to this section. It reads:

(A) Identifying Grounded (neutral) Conductors 6 AWG or Smaller. Grounded (neutral) conductors 6 AWG and smaller must be identified by a continuous white or natural gray outer finish or by three continuous white stripes on other than green insulation along its entire length. Figure 200–3

Author’s Comment: The use of white reidentification tape, paint, or other methods of markings is not permitted on conductors 6 AWG or smaller.

NOTICE: Text that is strikethrough is intended to represent text that is no longer contained in the 2002 NEC.

(B) Identifying Grounded (neutral) Conductors Larger than 6 AWG. Grounded (neutral) conductors larger than 6 AWG must be identified by a continuous white or natural gray outer finish along its entire length, or it can be identified by distinctive white markings such as tape, paint, or by other effective means at its terminations. Figure 200–4

Author’s Comment: Reidentification can be with white tape but not with gray tape.

(D) Mixing Grounded (neutral) Conductors from Different Systems in the Same Raceway or Enclosure. Where conductors from different systems are installed in the same raceway, cable, or enclosure, one system grounded (neutral) conductor must have an outer covering of white or natural gray. The other system grounded (neutral) conductor must have an outer covering of white with a readily distinguishable different color stripe (not green) running along its entire length. Figure 200–5

FPN: Care should be taken when working on existing systems because the color gray may have been used as an ungrounded (hot) conductor.

Intent: This action will address the concern expressed by many that the term "natural gray" is not defined and there is no recognized color or tint that one can readily associate with that term. The addition of the Fine Print Note is to warn individuals that there may be electrical systems where a gray conductor was used as an ungrounded (hot) conductor.

Author’s Comment: The panel rejected a proposal that would have specifically limited white to be used with systems below 150V to ground and gray to be used above 150V to ground. In addition, the panel rejected a proposal to allow 6 AWG and 8 AWG grounded (neutral) conductors to be re-identified in the field by the use of white or gray marking. It could be difficult to distinguish the difference in color between a white and a gray conductor in the same raceway after it has gotten dirty or if it has aged.

Images courtesy of Mike Holt Enterprises

[Russel Ray]

Electricians around here don't care which way the panel is installed as long as the breakers don't read "NO" instead of "ON".

[N5XL]

Ok guys,

I'm trying to learn, so forgive me if I ask some really dumb questions...

In this picture

The rats nest of wiring at the top. Is that all NM cable stuffed in one conduit? How are they secured as they enter into the service panel? Wouldn't there be a derating factor for all of those bundles of wire if the were in the same conduit? I can't tell if its conduit, or how the wires are secured. Is it really OK to bundle wires with a piece of wire? If you are going to do it, why not just zip tie it with a tie wrap?

This one...

What about the two neutrals sharing the same screw on the grounded bar? And on the other side, the neutral and grouding conductor sharing the same screw? Is it really OK to have white wires for a hot leg on a 220 circuit? I thought it was supposed to be red....or any other color except white (or green.) I've seen this before, but it just looks really odd to me.

And the last one...

I can't see the conduit that feeds the subpanel to the right....Where is the insulated bushing for the box, or the locking ring for that matter? Is this the "other end" of the conduit that Joe was commenting on earlier?

Like I said...still learning so go easy on me.

Dave

[away]

Dave,
Yes all the NM is stuffed into that one hole, well most of it anyhow. There was another "bundle" in the upper left. As for derating I will let one of our resident electricians answer that. My guess it yes it will derate somewhat but the built in safety factors may make it a wash. Generally, the NM is secured to a scab piece of wood above the panel and from what I have seen around here, there is no conduit other than the threaded piece you see in the picture. This will act as the bushing where the NM passes through the cabinet. Obviously the drywall prohibits any inspection as to how well they are secured. As far as bundling with a piece of wire, tie wrap, etc. that just makes it easier to keep things out of the way while they are wiring up the panel. They should be removed but often aren't.

The two neutrals are a no-no in general. I will call them out but it is something that happens frequently. Just a sign of laziness on someone's part, especially when an open lug is just below the doubled up one. Seems it would be harder to fit two wires under one screw than on separate lugs. Generally for 220 circuits the white should be remarked, but it rarely happens. I did check one of my books and my prior statement is almost verbatim what the authors (Doug Hanson, Redwood Carson, and Mike Casey) said in the book. The neutral and ground sharing the screw is a no-no as well. I have seen them on the same bar, but under the same screw is just wrong. Again this is a laziness factor as they could have just run the neutral over to the other side very easily.

I think Joe wanted to see the pictures of the set up for both panels. I probably should have gotten a better picture where the conductors are entering the box. I do that normally but got a little sidetracked when my client asked a few unrelated questions. There were other issues so I put a blanket "have both panels reviewed and corrected as needed" type statement in my report. The bushings and such were part of the problems listed in the report.

Hope that helps and I am sure others will chime in if I missed something.

[Robert J. OConnor]

I am left wondering if the unused bar on the right is intended for the grounding wires and therefore may be connected to the enclosure. In addition to removing the bonding screw, perhaps the bond strap/wire between the bars on either side of the breakers also needs to be removed to isolate the neutrals ...

[jtedesco1]

Also, notice the lack of a proper connector at the bottom left.

[Richard W. Washington]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Andrew:

The green screw is the "main bonding jumper" to be used and installed in the main service disconnecting means. It should not be left in that panel because someone else taught in another world would probably screw it in and the attached image of your picture shows me that there is not a proper fitting and looks like whoever did that work was not familiar with the construction and operation of electrical equipment.

I may be wrong, but the panel looks like it is upside down??

Sure wish I could see more, so that I can help you cite more problems if any? I will be in Texas soon, and it is my understanding that they have been licensing electricians there for a while now, that's good but if this is the type of work they do there I would be weary??

When and where in TX will you be?

[Richard W. Washington]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Andrew:

The green screw is the "main bonding jumper" to be used and installed in the main service disconnecting means. It should not be left in that panel because someone else taught in another world would probably screw it in and the attached image of your picture shows me that there is not a proper fitting and looks like whoever did that work was not familiar with the construction and operation of electrical equipment.

I may be wrong, but the panel looks like it is upside down??

Sure wish I could see more, so that I can help you cite more problems if any? I will be in Texas soon, and it is my understanding that they have been licensing electricians there for a while now, that's good but if this is the type of work they do there I would be weary??

Sorry. Just realized this thread was from 06.