Suitable Only for Use as Service Equipment

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by roconnor

And your kidding that you would write up the labeling semantics as an issue on a home inspection.

RJOC brings up a good point. I'll let you HI's hash this one out. On an electrical inspection the panel is NG.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by tspargo

I just re-read some of this... Robert O', do you feel that a panel downstream from the Main is actually in the Service Position?

The term "service position" isn't defined, but I think the intent is the panel would generally only be permitted to be installed as the "service" disconnect for the utility power supply. Technically the power supply to the remote garage is not a "service", its a "feeder". But notice the wording states it "generally" would only be permitted for that use.

I think an exception would be an existing remote garage panel with a 3-wire feeder (no EGC) installed under prior UL/NEC editions, where "service equipment" was associated with the disconnect for "supply conductors" to a building.

The codes were changed to prohibit 3-wire remote garage feeders, and the definition of "service equipment" was changed to be associated with the disconnect for "service entrance conductors" which refers to the utility power supply. So RM is right that the install wouldn't be allowed under current codes ... but this is an existing installation where it might be acceptable. Thats just going from some slides, and I would have to look up when and why those changes were made to be sure.

A local NYBFU inspector I know thought it was a borderline situation for an older garage panel and would really depend on exactly when it was installed, but wouldn't have split hairs over it for an older install because the label simply means the neutral is factory bonded to the enclosure and cant be removed ... as opposed to a panel that is "suitable for use as service equipment" where that bond can be removed (or not installed).

However, in the end the bottom line is what your local AHJ thinks.

[Tim Spargo]

Feedback I received on this one was the panel was going to be replaced.. ( no permit for existing install ). The bid was to leave feeders intact and replace panel AFAI was told.

And your kidding that you would write up the labeling semantics as an issue on a home inspection.

If the label implied it's *incorrect* use, I'm not sure why that would be "kidding" to write it up. Semantics wasn't so much that I was implying, simply that looking for an exception where it *may* be OK wasn't/isn't productive in majority of inspection and our industry, except for obviously discussion or education. But for application in the field, it's difficult to prescribe where exceptions may be OK or why/how a trade should fix something, when they may not want to fix it at all, in it's current state. I'm not there to explain why it *may* be OK, if it's not OK now. They may/may not get that information from the specialist that would come behind any of us (such as an electrician) IE, if the label implied incorrect use, and the install was incorrect (bonded neutral on a 4 wire feed for a remote) etc.., it's defective in it's *current* installation, and I write it up, semantics and all. I would think that labels point a lot of us in the proper direction to indicate the proper and safe installation of systems.

I *assumed* that the repairing contractor may simply install and float a neutral bar as a *fix*, but whadya know.. they wanted to do it right....

[Robert J. OConnor]

Earlier in the thread it was noted that there was a defect, and it was suggested that the repair method be left up the a licensed electrician, with permits for the repair. After that the rest of the thread was really just for educational discussion.

I wouldn't have written up the panel just because of the label, with no other defects. Others might. IMO that would really have been splitting hairs from an HI POV.

I agree the preferred method of repair would be to keep the 4-wire feeder and replace the panel ... but that does cost more. Installing a new floating neutral bar is another option. But then there would be that sticky label issue, particularly for a permitted repair. But it comes down what the electrician doing the repair thinks, and what the local AHJ is likely to accept.

In the end a good thread with a good discussion of the issues encountered with some remote panels IMO ... and your client will end up with a safe installation ... good job ...