Sure Test fails to trip AFCI breakers

[Bruce A. King]

The definition on an "arc" when talking about AFCI's is based on what the engineers agreed on during production of the devices. The AC waveform "noise" that causes the device to trip is a result of lots of testing and has to be limited in order to prevent nuisance trips. Expecting a tester made by a different company to always work is unrealistic until they come up with an industry standard of unsafe waveforms. This probably will not happen since AC waveforms under arcing conditions and normal on/off effects of household devices used on the circuit is extremely complicated at best.

GFCI's are much simpler since a certain current differential is simple to spec and measure. Writing up a GFCI for not tripping with a known good tester is a reasonable action since line impedance differences can cause one to not trip or be slow to trip at some remote outlet with the GFCI device upstream somewhere.

In other words, the GFCI device can safely be tested with its own test button but an actual ground fault downstream needs to be "seen" by the GFCI and these testers we use are a good way to test those remote outlets.
A writeup should explain the exact locations of everything and not just a basic "it did not trip".

[Jim Port]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

I carry 3 GFCI testers in my tool kit from the small $10 type to the original Suretest I bought in 1985. If none of my testers will trip a GFCI and the test button does, I call it as a defect!! Just being safe......... when 3 testers that are designed to "create a ground fault condition" do not cause a trip, I'm assuming the GFCI unit will not trip when a real one occurs!

The 3 light testers will not trip a GFI on an ungrounded circuit. This would be a shortcoming of the test method, not a defect in the GFI or the wiring.

As was said elsewhere, the UL recognized method is the test button on either the GFI or AFCI.

[Jim Port]

Bruce, you touched on the same thing a UL engineer said. There is no standard algorithm for the arc fault logic. Each maker has written their own criteria so the test method may not coincide with the
AFCI logic used by the breaker. They emphasized that the test button was the only recognized test method. Anything else, like the Suretest, was an indicator.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

The 3 light testers will not trip a GFI on an ungrounded circuit. This would be a shortcoming of the test method, not a defect in the GFI or the wiring.

As was said elsewhere, the UL recognized method is the test button on either the GFI or AFCI.

I was talking about grounded receptacles. On ungrounded circuits, I have to rely on the integral test button.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

I was talking about grounded receptacles. On ungrounded circuits, I have to rely on the integral test button.

Purchase or construct a ground-continuity adapter.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jpope

Purchase or construct a ground-continuity adapter.

I have something like that but trying to find a good ground is sometimes a PITA!

What do you do on older 2 blade only receptacles that are supposedly protected by a GFCI located elsewhere?

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Generally, they will have BX and a metal box with the older systems. I will remove a cover if necessary.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

I thought the appropriate way was to test at the breaker itself??

There is an apparent dispute about how to test, with UL saying one thing and the test equipment manufacturers saying another. (I'm not sure what authority UL has to say a test at the site of the outlet is invalid.)

See page 4 of this document: http://www.idealindustries.com/media...it_testing.pdf

It says: "This simulated arc meets the present UL guidelines for AFCI testers."

I plan to err on the side of safety and refer it to a sparky unless I get different info from Ideal.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by jpope

Generally, they will have BX and a metal box with the older systems. I will remove a cover if necessary.

Here we have a bit of BX only; mostly ungrounded Romex style here after K&T/before the grounded wire of the late 1950's-early 60's.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

What do you do on older 2 blade only receptacles that are supposedly protected by a GFCI located elsewhere?

Originally Posted by jpope

Generally, they will have BX and a metal box with the older systems. I will remove a cover if necessary.

No need to remove the cover ... if it's BX and a metal box just use a 3-2 prong adapter. The receptacle yoke will connect the center faceplate screw to the metal box.

And if ya have an older style 3-2 adapter with the wire, that will also work for checking 3-prong receptacles on older 2-wire BX BCW with GFCI protection located elsewhere, to make sure that outlet that is indicating "open ground" is indeed GFCI protected.

But I agree with others that the correct way to check GCFI/AFCI protected outlets is to push the test button on the receptacle/breaker.

JMO & 2-Nickels ...