Tricky Electricians

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Tom,

You will have to put AFCI on ALL 15 & 20 A circuits in the dwelling......that are 125V.....and that means ANY and ALL........

This of course is only if your area is adopting the 2008 NEC upon it's inception.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

P.S.......There is no dumb questions......all questions are important to the people who ask them.....

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

Paul, did you get the Siemens mailer that must have went out to a zillion electricians several weeks ago? They claim that January 2008 requirement for combination type AFCI's will add between 250 and 500 bucks to the house's wiring costs. Lord only knows what the whole house AFCI change will add to the wiring price.

http://www.sea.siemens.com/reselec/d...AFCIletter.pdf

Of course they applaud this new requirement. They stand to make A LOT of money. Duh.

I have a question about the wording. They say as of 1/1/08, the 2005 NEC will require...
What is the real story? Will the 2005 be ammended, or will the new requirement be only in the 2008?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

This of course is only if your area is adopting the 2008 NEC upon it's inception.

nah.......will effect me either way since I have some classes scheduled already around the country starting at the end of 2007 teaching the 2008...should be fun...

I personally believe there will be enough support behind it that it will be accepted in MOST states when the 2008 is adopted.....but like in VA...we wont see the NEC 2008 be enforced until its adopted sometime in 2011..

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Peter,

It is my understanding that it is much like the 1999 NEC has the 1/1/2002 mandate within it.....if still under 1999 NEC as of 1/1/2002 the first of the AFCI requirements went into effect.....same deal for the AHJ's observing the 2005 NEC.....if they are still in it come 1/1/2008 they can CHOOSE to rule on it...or overlook it as we know they can do......

[Paul W. Abernathy]

I still don't buy into the PROFITS arguement totally on the AFCI issue, I have been doing an article on it ( still doing it ) for the past few weeks and looked at alot of data and tests, spoke with some GOOD people on this topic and it is simply a supply and demand thing......I personally feel AFCI's work and will be a good safety enhancement move.....but in doing so COSTS need to come down and I think the major players will address this....do they have to..NOPE but I think they will and atleast one manufacturer has stated this in a conversation...but then again Charles Manson said he was innocent also..

Who knows......but safety data does not lie.........Peter please do not make me repost that info.....I am tired...lol.....check my post on it a few days ago...lol

[tdietrich1]

I'm again looking at the Siemens letter, in reference to Januauary 2008, per 2005 NEC, requirement for combination type AFCI's. I'm wondering the real world applications. What was I was I able to do til, 31 DEC 2007, and what can I only do 1 Jan 2008?

tom

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Tom,

The Combination Requirement is based on the need a product that discloses and detects both types of arc conditions ( which I know some do now already ) and this will STILL be in effect until the 2008 is adopted in your area....so it means the bedroom requirement does not change until the 2008 is adopted.....but the combination requirement goes into effect regardless on 1/1/2008......not THAT is the one that will probably NOT be enforced for awhile.......but then again companies like Eaton already have a unit that meets this requirement and freely selling it today.

Gotta run...taking the wife to a FANCY dinner...( McDonalds is hold me a booth )

[tdietrich1]

Ok, so prior two 1Jan2008, per 2005 NEC, I could use any type of AFCI breaker. After 1Jan2006, I must use an AFCI breaker that is a "combination type".

Still only talking about what is happening per 2005, I'll cross the 2008 bridge when it is adopted.

Ok, so what AFCI's are combination types? I'm a square-d fan myself. <crossing fingers>

tom

ADDED LATER,

Brain Unfreezing, prior to 1jan08 all dwelling bedrooms require any AFCI protection, afterward the AFCI must be 'combination type' AFCI, so I need to installed "combination type" AFCI breakers. Just to keep doing what I currently do. I found Square-D has them already. http://www.squared.com/us/products/c...boafcipage.htm
tom

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by tdietrich1

Brain Unfreezing, prior to 1jan08 all dwelling bedrooms require any AFCI protection, afterward the AFCI must be 'combination type' AFCI, so I need to installed "combination type" AFCI breakers. Just to keep doing what I currently do. I found Square-D has them already. http://www.squared.com/us/products/c...boafcipage.htm
tom

Yep, that's the long and the short of it. Just think of "combination type AFCI's" as version 2.0 of an AFCI breaker. It's just got some enhancements. This is covered in the 2005 NEC 210.12(B):

(

B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit. Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.


If your jurisdiction is on the 2005 NEC, without an amendment to this section, the combination type breaker requirement will automatically go into effect Jan 1, 2008.

[ggreene]

In most muncipalities a fridge receptacle ( new construction)must be a designated single yoke receptacle on a designated circuit. surprising more local codes have not caught on. I think you made a great catch and topic to cover.

[Greg Fretwell]

I have heard a rumor that Florida might skip the 2008 and wait for 2011. Figure 2 years after that for actual adoption if the past is any indication.

I will be getting my Social Security by then ... if there is any left

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by ggreene

In most muncipalities a fridge receptacle ( new construction)must be a designated single yoke receptacle on a designated circuit. surprising more local codes have not caught on. I think you made a great catch and topic to cover.

Must be your area....nothing in the NEC demands this requirement and the dedicated requirements, it offers it as a option not a demand.