Is this type of splicing OK?

[scosta]

Are these type of splices allowed? It looks like regular automotive style splices.

Thanks, Steve

[Greg Veal]

I've seen splices done that way alot.

One of my Electrical buddies says he uses that type of crimp connection more for low voltage connections than line voltage but, they are legal in our area up to certain wire size and voltage ratings. Space is typically the main factor for him using this type of connection. He'd much rather twist and wire nut connections.

[jclark1]

Butt splices like that are not designed for solid wire.

[Speedy Petey]

They most certainly are rated for solid wire. At least the good quality ones are.
Go to this link, click on the .pdf drawing link and see Note #1.
http://www.panduit.com/search/produc...ame=BSV10X%2DL

That said, I would not feel comfortable using them. At least not without my expensive ratchet crimper that I use for automotive work.
I don't think you get enough compression with a simple "squeeze" crimper.

[Greg Fretwell]

The only way any of the splices are listed is when used with the proper crimping tool, usually the one made by the terminal company. Other crimpers may work fine but the manufacturer will not say that.

[jclark1]

While some butt splices may be used with solid wire, most are designed for stranded. If some of the smaller ones are designed for solid, like Greg said it depends on the tool. There are many different ratcheting crimpers that are used in control wiring applications. The smaller mechanical butt splices are more designed for that application rather than 120v branch circuit distribution.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Check it....automotive designed "BUTT" splices are rated for 12V DC and generally not for use with 120V AC voltage. While some may cross mix, when we buy them we are looking directly for 120V ( 600V) rated splices.

Correct they do make some for solid and some are directly for stranded wire....really need to know what you are dealing with but unless the splice in question shows signs of melting or distress I would probably not raise to much of a stink over it....look for other issues to defer and then mention the splices to be evaluated...most electricians will be able to look and tell how it was done.

[scosta]

Thanks for your replies, there were other issues and I did defer. I told them when their electrician looks at it he can determine if they are acceptable or not.
Steve

[ggreene]

In my own opinion those splices are in no way acceptable !! certainly not for solid wire ! A tapped wirenut might be the closest i would not recomend an electrician !!

[ccbrands1]

Originally Posted by ggreene

In my own opinion those splices are in no way acceptable !! certainly not for solid wire ! A tapped wirenut might be the closest i would not recomend an electrician !!

who would you recommend?

homeowner?

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by ggreene

In my own opinion those splices are in no way acceptable !! certainly not for solid wire !

This is what I mean. You seem very adamany about this, considering all the exclamation points.
What if these are Panduit splices connected with the proper tool? PERFECTLY safe and legal.
See my point? You cannot put a blanket statement like that on this type of installation. You can however simply call it out for evaluation.


ccb, the way I read it is a wire nut would be the closest thing he would not call out for evaluation.

[Greg Fretwell]

I agree Petey, those are actually pretty nice looking splices. All the crimps are uniform, the bodies are straight and the outer jackets are not damaged. That is usually the tip off when the wrong tool is used or it is used improperly. The splice will look ugly.

[Doug Edwards]

Great thread. Good info, appreciate you guys separating the truth from the guesses. The pdf chart tells the story. Ive seen these once and they were installed in an electricians house.

[ggreene]

Thank you -Peter. I'm not a licensed electrician but did industrial electrical work for over 15 years . To the best of my own understanding a panel or a disconnect should not be used as a raceway either, that is what junction boxes,seal tite and conduit are for, I could be wrong ? but on the otherside of the coin I understand here in florida many areas are giving way to splices if a generator is installed by a contractor and the proper generator panel put in place ?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Greg,

a Panel is very MUCH considered a raceway as most in my opinion have adequate space for these conductors and spliced also in as much you can clearly pass SE conductors through it, splice in it if needed and so on as long as you meet the requirements for it.

Many times (2) 200A panels will be fed from a 400A meter enclosure..so what you have is (6) 2/0 CU conductors coming into the first one and (3) will continue through to the second 200A panel....( notice I did not downsize my neutral....I like full sized neutrals when at all possible these days )

But the panel is clearly a allowable raceway...now their are some limitations to this...and circuits of other systems not using the panels as raceways...but they are considered raceways in the above mentioned reference.

It is my opinion that most enclosures of this nature have specific space in the top and bottom and sides for splices and clearance......some will disagree but I happen to believe it is so.

110.59 Enclosures.

Enclosures for use in tunnels shall be
dripproof, weatherproof, or submersible as required by the
environmental conditions. Switch or contactor enclosures
shall not be used as junction boxes or as raceways for
conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches,
unless special designs are used to provide adequate space
for this purpose.

312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.

Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be
used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for
conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches
or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose
is provided. The conductors shall not

fill the wiring
space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the
cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors,
splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross
section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area
of that space.

With the statements made above by the NEC it is my opinion they leave the door open for such connections and splices....very hard to prove otherwise.