Using used electrical equipment?

[jtedesco1]

I believe NEMA recently developed a guide to be used to determine if the electrical equipment salvaged during the floods could be used again.

The question also being asked, is "can we use the same equipment, such as overcurrent devices in like panels and switches?"

Here are three images, courtesy www.iaei.org for your evaluation.

[Bruce A. King]

Electrical equipment (excluding wire) is basically cheap, toss it out.

Joe, do you have a web link or picture/info on the equipment electricians use to techinially test the overcurrent performance of circuit breakers?

Or is this even done?

I see many electricians that think flipping a breaker to off and back to on is a "check". Where did the training and licensing fail us here?

[Speedy Petey]

Here is another one:
http://www.mikeholt.com/download.php...-Equipment.pdf

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by bking

Joe, do you have a web link or picture/info on the equipment electricians use to techinially test the overcurrent performance of circuit breakers?

Or is this even done?

I see many electricians that think flipping a breaker to off and back to on is a "check". Where did the training and licensing fail us here?

No, it is not done.
We are not trained to make these official "tests", NOR is this an aspect of licensing.
We are not a testing lab.

IMO it is a judgement call. If a breaker is even questionable it should be replaced. Like you said, they are cheap enough.

If a breaker was in a flood is MUST be replaced. Period.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by bking

Electrical equipment (excluding wire) is basically cheap, toss it out.

Joe, do you have a web link or picture/info on the equipment electricians use to techinially test the overcurrent performance of circuit breakers?

Or is this even done?

I see many electricians that think flipping a breaker to off and back to on is a "check". Where did the training and licensing fail us here?

NEW EQUIPMENT SHOULD ALWAYS BE USED TO AVOID ANY FUTURE PROBLEMS, OR SEND THE EQUIPMENT TO:

http://www.pearl1.org/main.htm

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

NEW EQUIPMENT SHOULD ALWAYS BE USED TO AVOID ANY FUTURE PROBLEMS, OR SEND THE EQUIPMENT TO:

http://www.pearl1.org/main.htm

Exactly. These are the types of guys who do the testing. Not the guys in the field.

[Greg Fretwell]

Regardless of the money, a prudent person would replace NM that went under water too. The paper packing will be saturated and may take months or even years to dry out. That water vapor will be vented back through your panelboard enclosure and device boxes.

[jtedesco1]

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml88/88022.html

PS: What about the instructions that give the schedule for testing a GFCI? How about the instructions that may explain the way in which to check and reset a CB? I saw a picture of a bootlegged breaker recently showing that there was only a wire jumper inside of it!

Look here too:

Testing Circuit Breakers -

[Bruce A. King]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml88/88022.html

PS: What about the instructions that give the schedule for testing a GFCI? How about the instructions that may explain the way in which to check and reset a CB? I saw a picture of a bootlegged breaker recently showing that there was only a wire jumper inside of it!

Look here too:

Testing Circuit Breakers -

Bob Vila needs to change that to: "how to partially check a circuit breaker" or "how to check a circuit breaker for power presence"

What I was leading to is the issue with FPE breakers and how no one in the field is qualified/willing to test them and how it leaves home owners in a very false sense of security because "an electrician looked at it" or "an electrician checked it".

[jtedesco1]

Instructions are provided and, here's an example where the testing functions are described and even requires installer signatures.

I can remember trying to reset a 100 amp FPE breaker once in Glendale, CA while inspecting a new service and was unable to reset it!

I imagine after regular use, and following the instructions that some may reset. Let's everyone do that now!

[Marc D. Shunk]

The stuff in Joe's pics in the original post are visually damaged or otherwise at the end of their life. I'd rather put in new breakers on every job, but sometimes if I'm just swapping out for a bigger panel, I really don't have much trouble putting the existing breakers in the new panel if they aren't all that old and were located in a dry ambient. As a rule, I don't like to reuse existing breakers in new panels on changeouts, but sometimes it's not a big deal if they're not that old and visually fine. Depends on the customer's budget in that case. This is one of those times where wishes and desires meet the realities of business.

[Bruce A. King]

Joe, I guess you have not understood my original question about testing the overcurrent performance of circuit breakers because you keep posting unrelated information.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

well...I dont need to post my opinions here on "Used" equipment...lol....it gets beat up enough over on Mike Holts site as it is.

Personally it really draws the line for me, If they are doing NEW construction then I expect NEW equipment to be used....if they are leaving some equipment UP and reusing it then that may be different ( ie: as a junction box )...but if they are putting in a NEW upgraded panel and installing USED breakers that who knows HOW old they are.......and passing it off as NEW construction I believe the USBC in VA would prohibit that under 112.4...

But alas........some would like to take it to the extreme.....as Municipal Inspectors we have to use common sense as the golden rule and then apply the USBC, Then IRC or IBC and then NEC.......so in VA the USBC is the TOP DOG and it says it rather clear to me.....you read it for yourself:

112.4 Used material and equipment.

Used materials,
equipment and devices may be approved provided they
have been reconditioned, tested or examined and found
to be in good and proper working condition and
acceptable for use by the building official.

Now......we can be realistic in applying this....However, Ask me if I will accept a person doing a service upgrade and they replace an old 60A fuse panel with a 100A Circuit Breaker Panel with old KO plugs in it and a half worn off ledger......Nope....sorry.....New Construction means NEW Product in my view and guess what......also happens to be the way my head building official see's it...Guess I am lucky...theheheheh

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

As a rule, I don't like to reuse existing breakers in new panels on changeouts, but sometimes it's not a big deal if they're not that old and visually fine. Depends on the customer's budget in that case. This is one of those times where wishes and desires meet the realities of business.

And you know...I can respect that logic......but it really needs to be the Inspector who makes that call based on the direction of their head building official.

I speak with Eaton alot ( not as much as I used to since I have gone to Richmond ) and they say breakers have a lifespan...usually about 20 years if maintained properly.......depending on if they are bi-metal reactive or magnetic the wear and time effects them at different periods and to be honest while we can't verify the valildity of a new breaker versus an old breaker sometimes.....I still feel better with a new one in the panel than I would with a 20 year old one....maybe thats just me.......but I do.....

When I did work my clients got my price...and that was my price...take it or leave it......sorry but their budget did not concern me much which is why the AFCI thing never made be blink a bit........its even across the board in cost so they will absorb it and get over it.......

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by bking

Joe, I guess you have not understood my original question about testing the overcurrent performance of circuit breakers because you keep posting unrelated information.

Bruce:

Testing a CB is required by the product manufacturer and that was in the attachment I posted, did you read it at all?

Also, look for the UL CB Marking guide www.ul.com and in it you will find testing information that should help your answer your questions.

I alway post information that may be helpful and useful, and when that information is not understood, or is considered unrelated then search Google!

You are qualified enough to have some ideas, and maybe we should hear of them instead.