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Electrical Inspections Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes receptacles, panels, wiring, etc.

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  #16  
Old 6/13/09, 6:24 PM
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Michael Larson Michael Larson is offline
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Default Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbeaumont View Post
LOL, sorry Mike, just couldn't resist

BTW there is obviously a problem eilther with the way the outlet is wired or a grounding problem in the appliance.

Regards

Gerry
Close Gerry. Very close.

BTW-I cleaned my fingernails

You win the next clue.
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He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

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  #17  
Old 6/13/09, 6:29 PM
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Default Re: What would you do?

HI Mike

I see your reversed polarity and raise you one false ground, do I win yet??

Regards

Gerry



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  #18  
Old 6/13/09, 6:37 PM
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Michael Larson Michael Larson is offline
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Default Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbeaumont View Post
HI Mike

I see your reversed polarity and raise you one false ground, do I win yet??

Regards

Gerry
You're well along the way to solving the case detective Beaumont.

They plugged the three prong refer into the cheater and then the 2-wire extension cord and into the reverse polarity outlet.

I didn't measure the available fault current on the refrigerator but I bet it was high. I would want to touch that fridge standing on the carpet which is on a grade slab.

What did I do next?

Or what would you do?



He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

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- Henry Rosovsky-Harvard

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  #19  
Old 6/13/09, 6:39 PM
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Default Re: What would you do?

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Originally Posted by mlarson View Post

Or what would you do?
Run , or unplug the extension cord

Regards

gerry



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  #20  
Old 6/13/09, 6:39 PM
Larry D. Kage Larry D. Kage is offline
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Default Re: What would you do?

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Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
What did I do next?
Get a drink straight from the faucet while holding onto the fridge?



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  #21  
Old 6/13/09, 6:41 PM
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Default Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbeaumont View Post
Run , or unplug the extension cord

Regards

gerry
Well I was alone at the inspection and there were items in the fridge.

House was under contract and staged but no one living there.



He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
- Henry Rosovsky-Harvard

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  #22  
Old 6/13/09, 7:38 PM
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Default Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
Well I was alone at the inspection and there were items in the fridge.

House was under contract and staged but no one living there.
well if I were being really kind (which generaly I'm not) I might have just plugged the extension cord into a properly wired outlet. MAYBE

Gerry



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  #23  
Old 6/13/09, 7:50 PM
brian winkle brian winkle is offline
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Default Re: What would you do?

You cannot assume there is voltage present on the refrigerator just from your NC tester. There are many instances where an NC tester will sound off when there is no voltage present. Try it sometime on a metal light fixture connected to a two wire system. Or just holding it close to a two wire, ungrounded receptacle.

Once you get the ring from your NC tester, the next step would be to pull out an analog tester, bring in a known ground, and check for voltage.

Of course I know this is not in the scope of an inspection, so the next step might involve a sparky. Even if the fridge cabinet is not energized, the metal appliances plugged into a two wire system should be addressed.
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  #24  
Old 6/13/09, 8:00 PM
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Michael Roberson Michael Roberson is online now
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Default Re: What would you do?

First I would run around on the carpet in my socks, and see if I can ground myself to the fridge.

Then I would show them this picture, and remind them never to plug anything bigger than a lamp into an extension cord.
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  #25  
Old 6/14/09, 9:54 AM
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Default Re: What would you do?

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Originally Posted by brian winkle View Post
You cannot assume there is voltage present on the refrigerator just from your NC tester. There are many instances where an NC tester will sound off when there is no voltage present. Try it sometime on a metal light fixture connected to a two wire system. Or just holding it close to a two wire, ungrounded receptacle.
That is correct.

What I decided to do was this.

I didn't have my meter with me and I not wanting to leave this potentially hazardous situation the way it was.

I removed the 2-wire cheater and 2-wire cord and pulled the refrigerator fridge out far enough to plug it in normally.

This was the result.
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He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
- Henry Rosovsky-Harvard

Michael Larson
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  #26  
Old 6/14/09, 10:52 AM
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Wayne B. Wilson Wayne B. Wilson is offline
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Default Re: What would you do?

Your the MAN Micheal ! I bet you kept the cheater didn't you. come on now we know you did. Put it the old tool pouch thinking i can use that someday . lololol
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  #27  
Old 6/14/09, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: What would you do?

When Texas adopted a new SOP in Feb of this year many of us scoffed at the new requirement to "Report as deficient...appliances and metal pipes that
are not bonded or grounded". I have found two range hoods and one dishwasher in the last 3 months that were not bonded and grounded. My inspection protocol for this has added about 2-3 minutes to my inspection time.
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  #28  
Old 6/14/09, 2:42 PM
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Michael Larson Michael Larson is offline
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Default Re: What would you do?

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Originally Posted by wwilson3 View Post
Your the MAN Micheal ! I bet you kept the cheater didn't you. come on now we know you did. Put it the old tool pouch thinking i can use that someday . lololol
Nope

I coiled it up and put it under the bar.
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He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
- Henry Rosovsky-Harvard

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI
InspectraPro
and
Minnesota Home Inspector

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Find an InterNACHI certified New Hampshire Home Inspector (and anywhere else in North America)
  #29  
Old 6/15/09, 12:50 PM
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George P. Wells, CMI George P. Wells, CMI is online now
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Default Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
I didn't measure the available fault current on the refrigerator but I bet it was high.
The safe thing to do would be to assume that the AFC is 10kA at all points in a house.

It would be difficult to determine the AFC at the refrigerator because you would need to know the kVA rating and impedance (Z%) of the transformer, and the combined impedance of service conductors and branch circuit conductors to determine the available fault current.

With rare exceptions, residential systems are approximately 10k AFC measured at the transformer bushings. The AFC will be less at the refrigerator because of the added impedance of the conductors between the transformer and the refrigerator.

Electric utility companies are often required to ensure an AFC of 10kA or less for residential single phase services because most residential electrical equipment is rated for 10k AFC.



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  #30  
Old 6/15/09, 12:54 PM
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Michael Larson Michael Larson is offline
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Default Re: What would you do?

George. I meant to say leakage current not fault current. Thanks.



He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors - Thomas Jefferson - Founding Father

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.
- Henry Rosovsky-Harvard

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI
InspectraPro
and
Minnesota Home Inspector

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