Zinsco

[David C. Macy]

I understand the Zinsco hazard summary and refferred my client to have the panel evaluated by a licensed electrician.

My question is are there any noticable issues with this panel.

It is in a condo built in 1973.

Panel was rated for 90 amps. Didnt see a main disconnect. Other than pointed screws at the dead front cover I didnt see any issues in the panel.

The panel was quite dusty/dirty.

[ccbrands1]

other than being a zinsco;

white wires used as hots should be marked with black tape.

with as few of breakers there are, the 6 hand movement rule for disconnects should not apply.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

That is not the service equipment, so there is no requirement for a service disconnect within that panel (the "six-throw" rule doesn't apply to remote panels).

Zinsco panels that are located at interior locations such as this, are less "problematic" than exterior units that are exposed to the elements. However, some Zinsco breakers will fail to open when an over-current condition occurs.

This particular installation looks like it was never equipped with an exterior, hinged cover. That, I assume, is the reason for all of the lint and debris at the interior of the panel. At a minimum, I would not hesitate to recommend that it be cleaned.

[wsiegel]

If this is not the service equipment, should not the grounds and neutrals be seppartated. Also there are three ground wires on one terminal.

[William J. Decker]

Hope you called out that non-approved dryer vent pipe.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by wsiegel

If this is not the service equipment, should not the grounds and neutrals be seppartated. Also there are three ground wires on one terminal.

Good thinking...If it's a load side panel, they should be separated and the grounded conductors isolated.

[brian winkle]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Hope you called out that non-approved dryer vent pipe.

Is that foil flex really not approved for dryers? I thought it was only the plastic kind that couldn't be used on dryers. Seems like that foil flex is all I ever see connecting the dryer to the pipe in the wall, in fact all my dryers are hooked up with it.

[Jae Williams]

M1501.1 General.
Dryer exhaust systems shall be independent of all other systems, shall convey the moisture to the outdoors and shall terminate on the outside of the building.

Exhaust ducts shall be constructed of minimum 0.016-inch-thick rigid metal, having smooth interior surfaces with joints running in the direction of air flow. Flexible transition ducts used to connect the dryer to the exhaust duct system shall be limited to single lengths, not to exceed 8 feet in length and shall be listed and labeled in accordance with UL 2158A.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by wsiegel

If this is not the service equipment, should not the grounds and neutrals be seppartated. Also there are three ground wires on one terminal.

Uuuhyep.

[brian winkle]

Originally Posted by jwilliams4

M1501.1 General.
Dryer exhaust systems shall be independent of all other systems, shall convey the moisture to the outdoors and shall terminate on the outside of the building.

Exhaust ducts shall be constructed of minimum 0.016-inch-thick rigid metal, having smooth interior surfaces with joints running in the direction of air flow. Flexible transition ducts used to connect the dryer to the exhaust duct system shall be limited to single lengths, not to exceed 8 feet in length and shall be listed and labeled in accordance with UL 2158A.

So the flex is okay in the situations I described, as long as it does not exceed 8 feet. It seems like a piece of flex running from the dryer to the roof vent would also be acceptable under this rule as long as it is 8 feet or less. The roof vent pipe, no matter how short, would be the "duct system". Does that make sense?

Sorry for the OT postings.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by brian winkle

Is that foil flex really not approved for dryers? I thought it was only the plastic kind that couldn't be used on dryers. Seems like that foil flex is all I ever see connecting the dryer to the pipe in the wall, in fact all my dryers are hooked up with it.

The only approved dryer vent pipe is rigid, galvanized pipe or corregated pipe.

The kind with the 'slinky' in it presents a non-smooth surface and can lead to lint fires.

Look at the box it came in. "Not approved for use with dryer vents"

Simple.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by brian winkle

So the flex is okay in the situations I described, as long as it does not exceed 8 feet. It seems like a piece of flex running from the dryer to the roof vent would also be acceptable under this rule as long as it is 8 feet or less. The roof vent pipe, no matter how short, would be the "duct system". Does that make sense?

Sorry for the OT postings.

No. It does not make sense.

I had a (small) fire in my house.

It was caused by such a dryer vent pipe.

"Smooth interior surface", What part of this don't you understand?

Lint fires (from clothes dryers) account for 49% of all residential home fires.

"Save your clients, save the world!"

Hope this helps;

[brian winkle]

I am not trying to start an arguement here but I have a valid concern over the way I have been connecting dryers . If it is not safe I want to fix it. Each dryer is connected with one to three feet of aluminum flex to the hard pipe in the wall. It is the same stuff you describe with the slinky inside. Now I went out to the shed where there is a plastic bag containing "deflect-o" brand 4" flexible aluminum "air duct". It does state on the bag "Not recomended for dryer venting". It is 25 feet long. This is what I use for venting bathroon fans with 4" exhaust fittings.

Then there are some boxes from Ace Hardware that say "Flexible aluminum dryer vent duct" The stuff inside looks the same as the kind in the bag. The one in the box is made in the US, the bag comes from Canada. The box says "UL listed, but it doesn't say for what it is listed. It is only five feet long. This is what I use for dryer venting transitions. Again, it it called "Dryer vent duct" on the box.

The corregated pipe you refer to, if it is what I am picturing, does not have a smooth interior surface. It is made up of aluminum in a spiral shape with grooves and ridges on the inside. It comes compressed and you stretch it out. The piece I have has no label.

So I guess the part I don't understand is what I should actually be using for the transition. Is there a product that is flexible AND has a smooth interior surface?

Excuse me if I sound ignorant, I am just trying to learn. I am the type of person that insists on doing a job 100% correct.

[Keith Swift, PhD.]

One simple question generates a fountain of information. Where else except on the NACHI message board.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jpope

That is not the service equipment...

How did you make that determination?