Does anyone remember.....

[John Gromkoski]

a post on this site, not too long ago, where a poster was concerned that a hot water radiant pipe below a wood floor would get too hot and it was a potential fire hazard? There were some interesting comments made in reply about the temperature it would need to get to before it would start a fire. I'm looking for that thread because I would like to use some of the info in a report I am writing. Thanks.

[Michael Larson]

Hi John, I remember that thread but as I recall the only real concern is drying out the wood too much if the circulating water is too high.

Retrofitted radiant heat pipes use some type of radiating device to spread the heat out below the wood and have a temperature regulator to limit the water temp in the pipe.

Check the uponor(wirsbo) site for details

[Michael R. Boyett]

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f11/report-55497/

[John Gromkoski]

Originally Posted by mboyett

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f11/report-55497/

Perfect Michael. Thank you.

[David A. Andersen]

Hydronic heat radiators causing a fire hazard?

Yea, you got to be kidding me!!!

The damn boiler will take out the entire block before it causes a fire!

Where do you guys come up with this crap?!

[Doug Edwards]

But David, the water was really, really hot so its possible, dontcha think, huh, huh.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by dandersen

Where do you guys come up with this crap?!

Actually, it was only one person on that other thread that felt it was a fire hazard....the majority of the posts were rebutting him.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by mboyett

Actually, it was only one person on that other thread that felt it was a fire hazard....the majority of the posts were rebutting him.

Well that one was a CMI.

[Jarrod M. Northage]

The kindling temp of wood is 451F, of course different woods have different kindling temperatures. Water tanks are usually in the 120-180 range. IMO I dont think the floor would catch fire

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jnorthage

The kindling temp of wood is 451F, of course different woods have different kindling temperatures. Water tanks are usually in the 120-180 range. IMO I dont think the floor would catch fire

Everyone but the CMI would agree with you.

Go read the thread.

Quite interesting.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by dedwards

But David, the water was really, really hot so its possible, dontcha think, huh, huh.

Totally agree dude....

The pyrolysis of wood, which starts at 200–300 °C,,,,,,,,, 390° F

[John Gromkoski]

Let me tell you guys why I asked the question about this thread in the first place. I got a call to do a an inspection on a wood burning fireplace. The home is an older late 1800's brownstone rowhome. The clients neighbor, attached on one side where the fireplace is located, complained and was concerned that the fireplace was a fire hazard to her home because her wall was getting hot. She also complained about peeling paint on her side. The fireplace was a full brick fireplace, with a double layer of firebricks lining the inside (2nd layer was put on to appease the neighbor), new clay liner, and appeared to be installed professionally. I wanted to mention in my report about what temperature a combustible material (i.e. wood framing) would need to reach before it would start a fire, although I could not confirm if there were combustible materials in contact with the fireplace. How hot can the wall get at the adjacent house through a double layer of fire bricks plus the full brick chimney itself? Unfortunately, I could not get into the neighbors house and am only reporting on the condition of the fireplace itself. How would you tell her there is nothing to worry about?

[Doug Edwards]

I would not have even gotten involved in that situation. Unless trained in a specific area I always refer this kind of matter to an expert. You could easily find yourself wrapped around the axle in a lawsuit down the road. I get weird calls all the time from people wanting me to inspect things well outside anything an inspector should be involved in.

"I need someone to come look at a broken beam under my house!"
"What do you want me to tell you?"
"What to do about it or how to fix it."
"You already know it is broken. Call a contractor."
"Oh, okay."

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by dedwards

I would not have even gotten involved in that situation. Unless trained in a specific area I always refer this kind of matter to an expert. You could easily find yourself wrapped around the axle in a lawsuit down the road.

Good advice.

This goes so far beyond the scope of a home inspection that it is scary.

Unless you have special training in in fire safety and chimneys, stay away and refer it to at least a some one that can preform a level II inspection.

Level 2 Inspections - A Level 2 inspection is required when any changes are made to the system. Changes can include a change in the fuel type, changes to the shape of, or material in, the flue (i.e. relining), or the replacement or addition of an appliance of a dissimilar type, input rating or efficiency. Additionally, a Level 2 inspection is required upon the sale or transfer of a property or after an operation malfunction or external event that is likely to have caused damage to the chimney. Building fires, chimney fires, seismic events as well as weather events are all indicators that this level of inspection is warranted. A Level 2 inspection is a more in-depth inspection than a Level 1 inspection.

Level 3 Inspections - When a Level 1 or Level 2 inspection suggests a hidden hazard and the evaluation cannot be performed without special tools to access concealed areas of the chimney or flue, a Level 3 inspection is recommended. A Level 3 inspection addresses the proper construction and the condition of concealed portions of the chimney structure and the flue. Removal or destruction, as necessary, of permanently attached portions of the chimney or building structure will be required for the completion of a Level 3 inspection.

A Level 3 inspection includes all the areas and items checked in a Level 1 and a Level 2 inspection, as well as the removal of certain components of the building or chimney where necessary. Removal of components (i.e., chimney crown, interior chimney wall) shall be required only when necessary to gain access to areas that are the subject of the inspection. When serious hazards are suspected, a Level 3 inspection may well be required to determine the condition of the chimney system.

[Doug Edwards]

Yep, Fire Marshall or someone who can definitively settle the matter "officially". I would tactfully tell my customer that I had done all I could do and give them their money back. No charge because I could not help you, have a nice day and run like the wind for the exit.