gas valve in firebox

[kelliott]

Is a gas valve in the firebox 'ever' alright?
I thought they always had to be outside. Found this one today under the gas log. You apparently have to have a long handle or fireproof arm to start and stop the thing.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by kelliott

Is a gas valve in the firebox 'ever' alright?
I thought they always had to be outside. Found this one today under the gas log. You apparently have to have a long handle or fireproof arm to start and stop the thing.

Hey neighbor Let me state what I do on a gas log as I can not tell much by the pic

If it is a gas log with an operating control type shut off such as pilot or igniter I don't care where the manual shut off is it can be anywhere in the fire box. But if there is only one valve and you have to manually light the Log by opening a hand operated valve it has to be in easy excess and can be in the firebox. Normally what I run into is a shut off in the brick ledge and a second valve in the firebox and then the control valve mechanism with valve.

[jwortham1]

Just spent some time last week chatting with a Fireplace and Chimney Tech.

He says "No way, no how" to gas valves in the firebox.

Check with one in your area and get his take on it.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jwortham1

Just spent some time last week chatting with a Fireplace and Chimney Tech.

He says "No way, no how" to gas valves in the firebox.

Check with one in your area and get his take on it.

Ok Jeff what about the requirement that ALL gas appliances will have a shut off valve at the appliance. A gas log is an appliance

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by kelliott

Is a gas valve in the firebox 'ever' alright?
I thought they always had to be outside. Found this one today under the gas log. You apparently have to have a long handle or fireproof arm to start and stop the thing.

This is very strange that this question should come up here tonight.

Just inspected a new home today that has never been lived in and the fireplace had a metal insert heat-a-lator installed and I had some questions for the builder that was present thus his plumber that I did not under stand the rational. The gas supply pipe into the back of the fireplace was the yellow coated flex line that all of the plumbers are using now and this line extended down to about 10 inches from the bottom of the heat-a-later and the a black iron nipple was used to extend into firebox area where a manual shut off valve was installed. From the shut off valve to the control valve a short gas rated flex line was then used. My question for the plumber was the yellow coated line allowed this close to the firebox. My self I have not encounter this before so I brought this to the attention of the powers to be just to CYA

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Yes, the gas log is an "appliance," and as such, requires a shutoff valve. But the valve must be located outside of the fire box.

Have you ever seen a shut off located inside an oven? I'll bet not

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jpope

Yes, the gas log is an "appliance," and as such, requires a shutoff valve. But the valve must be located outside of the fire box.

Have you ever seen a shut off located inside an oven? I'll bet not

Must be the difference between apples and oranges Jeff because in this state all of the gas log change outs have a manual shut off valve in the fire box.
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[Russel Ray]

I've found a few gas valves inside the firebox, and whether or not allowed by individual AHJ's, common sense just tells me NOT!

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by cbottger

Must be the difference between apples and oranges Jeff because in this state all of the gas log change outs have a manual shut off valve in the fire box.

I was surprised to discover that the 2006 IRC actually allows the shutoff valve to be located within the fire box.

G2420.5.1 (409.5.1) Shutoff valve in fireplace. Equipment shutoff valves located in the firebox of a fireplace shall be installed in accordance with the appliance manufacturer’s instructions.

Go figure. . .

It appears that the UBC does not specifically address valves in the firebox, only accessability to the valve, but I'll keep looking.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by rray

I've found a few gas valves inside the firebox, and whether or not allowed by individual AHJ's, common sense just tells me NOT!

Guys I have never placed any thought on this because it is a way of life here with the valve in the firebox.

I have inspected a couple of million gas Logs in this state. Well not quite that many and most have the little red plastic knob on the valve and I have never observed one of these with a melted knob. Just not enough heat from a gas log to do this. All the heat is going up the flue most wasteful use of good gas that was ever dreamed up.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jpope

Yes, the gas log is an "appliance," and as such, requires a shutoff valve. But the valve must be located outside of the fire box.

There is an exception in the IRC. Essentially, if the manufacturer permits it, then it is permitted. The full rule is listed below:

"IRC 2006 G2420.5 (409.5) Equipment shutoff valve. Each appliance
shall be provided with a shutoff valve separate from the appliance.
The shutoff valve shall be located in the same room as the
appliance, not further than 6 feet (1829 mm) from the appliance,
and shall be installed upstream from the union, connector
or quick disconnect device it serves. Such shutoff valves shall
be provided with access.

Exception: Shutoff valves for vented decorative appliances
and decorative appliances for installation in vented fireplaces
shall not be prohibited from being installed in an area
remote from the appliance where such valves are provided
with ready access. Such valves shall be permanently identified
and shall serve no other equipment.

G2420.5.1 (409.5.1) Shutoff valve in fireplace.
Equipment shutoff valves located in the firebox of a fireplace shall be installed in accordance with the appliance manufacturer’s
instructions."

So, I say in my reports: "Gas cutoffs are acceptable inside a gas fireplace firebox, if the manufacturer approves it. Consult the manufacturer's operator's manual prior to operation of gas logs."

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Sorry Jeff. I didn't read the entire thread before I posted above. I see that you see what I see about the IRC.