Good test question for CMI

[Charley L. Bottger]

What do you see wrong in these pics and what effect does it have.

[Keith Swift, PhD.]

I'm going to couch my answers in the form of questions, so I won't seem to be a complete idiot if I'm wrong. Won't the pressure in the high pressure lines be adversely affected by the size being increased? And, won't the lines being subterranean be impossible to repair if they leak? And, lastly, shouldn't the low pressure line be insulated? PS. can a high pressure line make a ninety degree turn?

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by cbottger

What do you see wrong in these pics and what effect does it have.

Number (1) I try to never do an Home Inspection from Pictures .
Number (2) I am a home inspector.
I do not try to diagnose what is wrong with things I am not fully trained on.
Air Conditioners for me they either start or they do not .
They are either level or not .
They are clear or surrounded with weeds .
They are either damaged or not.
If they do not start then Further evaluation required by qualified Personal.
If they start then do they continue to run and make the home compfortably cooler.
If yes I let them run .
I mark down when it was made if possible, and size if possible, and the split.
I also tell my client to not wrap them in plastic in our country as they tend to rust if they can not breath in the winter .
A sheet of Plywood on top is OK by me .
I also tell them the biggest enemy for AC out side units is in my experience
is Boy Dogs.
Every one goes quiet while this sinks in then all have a big laugh.

Yes I am a CMI and no I am not trying to be Factious

[Brian E. Kelly]

Insulation is waaaaay overated, and what is wrong with having some extra vapor expansion/condensing areas, I am sure it will make the unit more efficient won't it??????????????

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Insulation is waaaaay overated, and what is wrong with having some extra vapor expansion/condensing areas, I am sure it will make the unit more efficient won't it??????????????

Scuse me, but are you a CMI ???

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by tallen

Scuse me, but are you a CMI ???

Almost Todd, just two or threes more serious blows to the head should do the trick.

[Ted Allen]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Almost Todd, just two or threes more serious blows to the head should do the trick.

LMFAO!!!!

[Keith Swift, PhD.]

Shoot, just realized I'm not a CMI either. Forget my answers couched as questions.

[Keith Swift, PhD.]

However, if two out of my four questions couched as answers are right can I be nominated as CMI material, or as CMI candidate?

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Insulation is waaaaay overated, and what is wrong with having some extra vapor expansion/condensing areas, I am sure it will make the unit more efficient won't it??????????????

Less/ less/ less

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by kswift

I'm going to couch my answers in the form of questions, so I won't seem to be a complete idiot if I'm wrong. Won't the pressure in the high pressure lines be adversely affected by the size being increased? And, won't the lines being subterranean be impossible to repair if they leak? And, lastly, shouldn't the low pressure line be insulated? PS. can a high pressure line make a ninety degree turn?

Answer a question with question I heard that saying in Amway

No the pressure will not be adversely affected but the volume of freon from the condensing unit to the Evap will be.

Yes Freon lines are originally ran under the slab on grade foundations in this area and If they leak they are changed to the exterior of the wall and into the attic area.


Freon lines can and do make 90 degree turns all of the time very common and yes the suction or low pressure lines should be insulated.
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[Charley L. Bottger]

The above pics were from a inspec this last week and this is the second time in the last year that I have observed this same situation.

It is all a visual inspection; well almost

The condenser has a MFG's outlet stubbed out as a 3/8 copper line and the Coil MFG has a 3/8 copper line stubbed out. You can not decrease the size of the liquid line it can only be increased in size depending on the total length between condenser and A-coil.

The decrease in size will restrict the amount of freon to the A-coil resulting in what is refereed to as starving the Evap. The A-coil if observed would only be sweating approximately 3/4 of the way to the top of the coil.

This simply decreased the overall efficiency of the unit.

The home that I inspected had a 3 ton split system in use.

The outside ambient was less than 75 degrees at the time of operation

The unit had a Delta T of 16 degrees

The unit was operated for over one hour while the inspection was taking place and the temp within the home had dropped less than two degrees

The attic area of this home had approximately 18 inches of blown insulation and this gave me the impression that past owners had added extra insulation trying to compensate for the inefficiency of the A/C unit when the outside ambient was extreme.

My point is how may inspectors would have operated This unit from the thermostat observed a 16 degree Delta T and walked away from this unit calling it good.

The very first day with an outside ambient of 90 degrees and this unit would not have cooled this home to 75 degrees or probally even 78 degrees. These are the things that make your phone ring and the conversation starts with

Ah you inspected my home.

So there are things that should be observed with your eyes other than a dog urinating on the condenser. No I am not being vicious either


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[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by cbottger

The above pics were from a inspec this last week and this is the second time in the last year that I have observed this same situation.

It is all a visual inspection; well almost

The condenser has a MFG's outlet stubbed out as a 3/8 copper line and the Coil MFG has a 3/8 copper line stubbed out. You can not decrease the size of the liquid line it can only be increased in size depending on the total length between condenser and A-coil.

The decrease in size will restrict the amount of freon to the A-coil resulting in what is refereed to as starving the Evap. The A-coil if observed would only be sweating approximately 3/4 of the way to the top of the coil.

This simply decreased the overall efficiency of the unit.

The home that I inspected had a 3 ton split system in use.

The outside ambient was less than 75 degrees at the time of operation

The unit had a Delta T of 16 degrees

The unit was operated for over one hour while the inspection was taking place and the temp within the home had dropped less than two degrees

The attic area of this home had approximately 18 inches of blown insulation and this gave me the impression that past owners had added extra insulation trying to compensate for the inefficiency of the A/C unit when the outside ambient was extreme.

My point is how may inspectors would have operated This unit from the thermostat observed a 16 degree Delta T and walked away from this unit calling it good.

The very first day with an outside ambient of 90 degrees and this unit would not have cooled this home to 75 degrees or probally even 78 degrees. These are the things that make your phone ring and the conversation starts with

Ah you inspected my home.

So there are things that should be observed with your eyes other than a dog urinating on the condenser. No I am not being vicious either


</IMG></IMG>

It is obvious you are a air condition expert,
I am glad for you but I am a generalist and am quite satisfied that my inspections are done to the satisfaction of me and my clients.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by rcooke

It is obvious you are a air condition expert,
I am glad for you but I am a generalist and am quite satisfied that my inspections are done to the satisfaction of me and my clients.

Its all in the eyes and knowing what to look for. Just paying it forward

[mthomas2]

My $.02 worth:

This is a technical topic. I come here to learn technical material, and I make my own judgments about the usefulness of what I learn.

To the extent that my opportunity to learn in technical topics is lessened by having to wade through “political” disputes over stuff such as the validity/usefulness of a CMI certification, or lack of same, my time is wasted there.

As it happened, reading this topic, I learned one more thing to watch for: “reduced size of liquid line”, was remained of another: “depending on ambient conditions, a split can be misleading” and added a bit of diagnostic knowledge: “sweat on evaporator coil stopping short of top can be caused be obstruction/reduction of liquid line”.

Given my inspection protocol some of this knowledge is directly applicable, and some is not, but it’s all been added to my notes – THAT’S why I’m here.

So I would have preferred that the “CMI” issue was not raised by the subject line.

And I would have preferred that the CMI issue was ignored by the respondents.

YMMV.