HVAC questions for you "learned"

[gbrasseur]

Hello to all,

I am still a newbie with things to learn, and I had some HVAC questions for you in these pictures. This is from a newer house (built in 2004).

In picture 1)- I am thinking of writing up the hole in the "ducting tape" at the air return ducting? Too fussy or would you?

In pic 2)-I am not sure what the vent on the floor is?

In pic 3 and 4)- What about the loose wire (kinda of a brown wire) on top? Should this be called out? What is it too?

In pic 5) I thought there had to be a one inch clearance on double wall flue vents?

Thanks in advance to you who reply!

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by gbrasseur

Hello to all,


In pic 2)-I am not sure what the vent on the floor is?

Combustion air, looks like from crawl space.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by gbrasseur

In picture 1)- I am thinking of writing up the hole in the "ducting tape" at the air return ducting? Too fussy or would you?

I would put it in the report but it's a minor issue and not a material defect.

Originally Posted by gbrasseur

In pic 2)-I am not sure what the vent on the floor is?

As I also see the gas line and TPR drain line going throught th efloor can we assume that a crawl space is below? It may be the combustion air intake but need more info on the house construction. Also see flame rollout at the water heater and missing the inner door. No drip/dirt leg on gas supply.

Originally Posted by gbrasseur

In pic 3 and 4)- What about the loose wire (kinda of a brown wire) on top? Should this be called out? What is it too?

It appears to be low voltage from the t-stat wiring with no exposed conductors. I would recommend it be secured.

Originally Posted by gbrasseur

In pic 5) I thought there had to be a one inch clearance on double wall flue vents?

Any combustables in this area within 1 inch?[/quote]

[Jae Williams]

#1 The duct tape is being used to seal leaks in the joints. Duct tape dries readily and can leak in the future. Recommend monitoring and repair when needed.

#2 Possible return air vent--not allowed in that proximity to the furnace. If its is combustion air from the crawlspace, some areas do not approve because crawlspaces are not nice places.

#3 Thermostat wire--low voltage. Still, it should be protected from damage.
It may not cause a fire but is can cause the equipment to not operate.

#5 Looks like 1" clearance at the door--other than that it sure is sloppy work. Too much duct tape (any duct tape can be "too much").

[Greg Veal]

Greg

Pic#1 - Aluminum/Foil Tape is OK for sealing ductwork joints, but Mastic is better and more reliable. I never use cloth duct tape on ductwork, venting, Equipment, etc. Flameable/flame spread rating and caustic gases emission.

Pic#2 - If grill is over CrawlSpace/Basement area, it probably the lower of the Hi/Lo combustion air venting required for the mechanical space operation of the gas appliances.
Jae is correct, combustion should be ducted to foundation perimeter to avoid all sorts of algaes, fungus, etc. entering the space above.
?? - I hope the R/A is ducted and not designed as a free Return using the crawl/basement area as a plenum. The way the R/A plenum/duct is taped to plywood floor...
?? - looks like gas line come up from below, along with romex to power/service switch. Hopefully drip leg on gasline is below floor...
?? - W/H drain pan piped to below, TPR dumped on vinyl flooring...Go figuire
?? - Kitty Litter location ??

Pics#3 & 4 - I've seen a lot worse work. It does seem to be all L/V control wiring from the T'stat and the outdoor Condenser/Ht.Pump, depending on design. The wiring is protected by a grommet passing thru the cabinet knockout.

Pic#5 - Vent appears to have enough clearance with the sheetmetal firestop, but if it measures less than 1" I'd write it up. Lots of foil tape, would recommend Mastic, but unless I'm missing something else...

There is probably other things I'm missing, but that's a short list of what I see.

[Larry D. Kage]

Don't forget about the evidence of flame rollout on the water heater at the access door. Typically, it is caused by insufficient combustian air or a blocked vent.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by gbrasseur

Hello to all,

I am still a newbie with things to learn, and I had some HVAC questions for you in these pictures. This is from a newer house (built in 2004).

In picture 1)- I am thinking of writing up the hole in the "ducting tape" at the air return ducting? Too fussy or would you?

In pic 2)-I am not sure what the vent on the floor is?

In pic 3 and 4)- What about the loose wire (kinda of a brown wire) on top? Should this be called out? What is it too?

In pic 5) I thought there had to be a one inch clearance on double wall flue vents?

Thanks in advance to you who reply!

Looks like this has been quite well hashed over already. The vent in the floor is C air and I would recommend checking your local requirements, in this area it is allowed but not widely used.

The Low voltage wiring that you are homed in on is basically nothing but an extra wire in the bundle. No power. A good installer would have wrapped the single wire around the base of the bundle for future use if needed and on the thermostat end if that is where it went would have left it long and stuck it back in the hole in the wall behind the stat. Never know when one of those little buggers can be damaged and need another wire.

I would of wrapped that wire around the base of the bundle in less time than it took you to take the pic and never even mentioned it. I know you don't do repairs!!!! The tear in the duct tape TOOOOO Picky
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[gbrasseur]

As always, Thank You to those of you who post your answers! I continue to learn a tremendous amount from here because of you guys!

As I learn more of the things I am not too familiar on, in turn I can help others! Thanks Gang

[David A. Andersen]

Greg,

I don't want to get into your cornflakes, but I think you need to look at your SOP and follow it.
Home inspectors are only required to operate HVAC equipment from the thermostat.

You are venturing into areas that you are not obviously qualified for. SOP states that you are not required to perform evaluations of capacity, efficiency or projected life.

I would recommend that you keep away from these areas until you understand the concepts fully. You're opening yourself up to a lawsuit which is unnecessary. You are not providing your client with any useful information when it's wrong.

If you don't understand that leaking air duct systems cause a change in atmospheric pressure within the house which can induced problems such as mold and radon gas intrusion into living space of the house and cause efficiency losses, you probably should keep away from this.

I notice that you post a lot of questions on this bulletin board concerning the inspections that you do. They seem to be excessivly minor for someone who's been around as long as you have.

Again, I'm not trying to get into your stuff, but there is a lot of research and educational resources available to home inspectors which I recommend you consider investing in. Going by what a few home inspectors say about a couple of pictures on a bulletin board is not good business practice. You've got to know what you're doing.

Sorry about this.

I just think you need to get into a little more educational stuff then "asking the pros" and, even though they are willing to provide you with the information. Your request same awful basic for someone been around as long as you have. You live in Colorado, swing by and visit Nick.

[dchew]

The floor vent is probably the lower combustion air intake. There is a problem with using supply louvers for combustion air since the air flow area is restricted. I don't have my Code Checks with me, but there a definite requirement for the amount of combustion air ports for different types of installations and the amount of BTUs produced by the furnace and/or water heater.

Usually, something like a square foot of opening is required for a furnace for both the upper and lower combustion air ports. The maximum restriction for the ports is usually 1/4" steel screen mesh.

If you haven't invested in a set of Code Check books, do so. One of the best investments for the buck.

BTW, most older home have duct leak rate of about 30%. Minor tears in metal taped joints is like spitting into the wind. They don't really matter in the big pictures unless they are a lot of loose or torn tapes everywhere.

[David A. Andersen]

I would like to address the privet e-mails of Mr. Larsen & Mr. Blottger as well as address Greg B.

I have been forewarned by these members that my gunpowder is smoldering and I should temper my responses. I agree!

However, I tend to call it like I see it.

Greg, I only responded to the HVAC post that you made today, however you have made others within the recent past (severity of moisture through a foundation wall?) that are similar and I did temper my responses.

There is nothing wrong with asking a question. There is never a stupid question! However, I see a profile where numerous issues, which often is not even an issue, is being addressed by you over this website. Actually, that's fine. It makes all us "old folks" think about it for a while. However, my concern is that you may be depending on the responses of this website to formulate your inspection report, and that is not appropriate!

There is a difference between clarification and education. At some point in time, if you don't understand something you see (which is out of the ordinary in most inspections) you need to ask for help. However, the reason for white powdery substance on the interior of a foundation wall should be obvious to even the unseasoned home inspector who has adequate education.

Education! This is the point of the post.

This bulletin board is not necessarily here to educate you. There is an abundance of educational opportunities through this bulletin board and NACHI that you can take advantage of. I would highly recommended that you evaluate what you're asking. It appears that you have no earthly clue about some of the things you're asking. If this is the case, education is in order and should be considered. If this is just the way you write to get a response for peoples opinions, so be it.

I apologize again.
As I stated I don't want to get in your cornflakes, however the time I spend on this bulletin board is limited, though I try to read as much as I can because I always learn something. However, I refuse to answer questions about certain issues, and one of those issues is things that even the most inexperienced home inspector should have some experience and/or education in. As I said, it may be the way you post questions, but I don't think I am here to answer the most basic question to which the answer should be known.

Again, I am by no means trying to degrade any question that anyone posts to this board. However, a pattern is evident, and today I felt like I would address that.

Sorry.

[Rick McCullough]

Originally Posted by dandersen

I would like to address the privet e-mails of Mr. Larsen & Mr. Blottger as well as address Greg B.

I have been forewarned by these members that my gunpowder is smoldering and I should temper my responses. I agree!

However, I tend to call it like I see it.

Greg, I only responded to the HVAC post that you made today, however you have made others within the recent past (severity of moisture through a foundation wall?) that are similar and I did temper my responses.

There is nothing wrong with asking a question. There is never a stupid question! However, I see a profile where numerous issues, which often is not even an issue, is being addressed by you over this website. Actually, that's fine. It makes all us "old folks" think about it for a while. However, my concern is that you may be depending on the responses of this website to formulate your inspection report, and that is not appropriate!

There is a difference between clarification and education. At some point in time, if you don't understand something you see (which is out of the ordinary in most inspections) you need to ask for help. However, the reason for white powdery substance on the interior of a foundation wall should be obvious to even the unseasoned home inspector who has adequate education.

Education! This is the point of the post.

This bulletin board is not necessarily here to educate you. There is an abundance of educational opportunities through this bulletin board and NACHI that you can take advantage of. I would highly recommended that you evaluate what you're asking. It appears that you have no earthly clue about some of the things you're asking. If this is the case, education is in order and should be considered. If this is just the way you write to get a response for peoples opinions, so be it.

I apologize again.
As I stated I don't want to get in your cornflakes, however the time I spend on this bulletin board is limited, though I try to read as much as I can because I always learn something. However, I refuse to answer questions about certain issues, and one of those issues is things that even the most inexperienced home inspector should have some experience and/or education in. As I said, it may be the way you post questions, but I don't think I am here to answer the most basic question to which the answer should be known.

Again, I am by no means trying to degrade any question that anyone posts to this board. However, a pattern is evident, and today I felt like I would address that.

Sorry.

Well Stated. Education is the key. Experience comes with time. No way around it.

[gbrasseur]

Originally Posted by dandersen

I would like to address the privet e-mails of Mr. Larsen & Mr. Blottger as well as address Greg B.

I have been forewarned by these members that my gunpowder is smoldering and I should temper my responses. I agree!

However, I tend to call it like I see it.

Greg, I only responded to the HVAC post that you made today, however you have made others within the recent past (severity of moisture through a foundation wall?) that are similar and I did temper my responses.

There is nothing wrong with asking a question. There is never a stupid question! However, I see a profile where numerous issues, which often is not even an issue, is being addressed by you over this website. Actually, that's fine. It makes all us "old folks" think about it for a while. However, my concern is that you may be depending on the responses of this website to formulate your inspection report, and that is not appropriate!

There is a difference between clarification and education. At some point in time, if you don't understand something you see (which is out of the ordinary in most inspections) you need to ask for help. However, the reason for white powdery substance on the interior of a foundation wall should be obvious to even the unseasoned home inspector who has adequate education.

Education! This is the point of the post.

This bulletin board is not necessarily here to educate you. There is an abundance of educational opportunities through this bulletin board and NACHI that you can take advantage of. I would highly recommended that you evaluate what you're asking. It appears that you have no earthly clue about some of the things you're asking. If this is the case, education is in order and should be considered. If this is just the way you write to get a response for peoples opinions, so be it.

I apologize again.
As I stated I don't want to get in your cornflakes, however the time I spend on this bulletin board is limited, though I try to read as much as I can because I always learn something. However, I refuse to answer questions about certain issues, and one of those issues is things that even the most inexperienced home inspector should have some experience and/or education in. As I said, it may be the way you post questions, but I don't think I am here to answer the most basic question to which the answer should be known.

Again, I am by no means trying to degrade any question that anyone posts to this board. However, a pattern is evident, and today I felt like I would address that.

Sorry.

David,

As I read this board I often see people who seem to think it is their "job" to spew negativity about others. I often wonder why they are here if they have no positive input to give others and just negativity? Well the reasons could be many, however I digress. Then there are others who are truly here for the positive comradery and willing to lend a hand from their years of experiance.

I guess for now we will talk about the former, because that seems to be the case here. Understood?

Being that you seem to have such a deep seated concern for me (and others like me ) I figured just this once I would respond to some of your comments.

1) I assume you were talking about my post on efflorescence? My post was simply corespondence on how others (whom have no problem helping when they can) if they did, put it in their reports. Oh I am glad you "tempered" your responce, that was big of you.

2)As far as looking to this website to formulate my report? What the bloody heck are you talking about? (responce not needed). I personally am not afraid to admit I am a newbie! When I first came to the BB not too long ago, I was told by others to ASK questions. I do. I am not shy. I, like others are here for possitive interaction. But I am so glad you are here to inform me on what is, and is not, appropriate!

3)Well I have already dealt with the efflorescence issue. Perhaps you should go back and read the post?

4)Thank you for sharing with me that you think this BB is not for "education".
Maybe we should reserve this BB for those such as yourself who already know it all and are at the end of their learning curve?! I see a LOt of questions here by a LOT of people, I personally enjoy reading the question/responces. Again, thanks for your deep seated concern and sharing with me that you think I have "no earthly clue". Perhaps I will be like you some day and know it all as you say it is "out of the ordinary" to ask questions. Personally, I never want to stop learning. So yes, there are times I look for some peoples opinions, I value and respect many of the people here as well as their opinions!

5)I don't like cornflakes. If you feel your time here is limited, and you don't want to be bothered by questions from a newbie like me, then I have a news flash for you-don't. I am glad you have more lofty and important things to do. Personally I think often it is "the way I post questions". I like the positive comradery of the people I have tremendous respect for.

Maybe, unlike yourself, most people at some point have a learning curv? Like I said I am new. I have been inspecting for about 7 months now. And with every inspection I do I walk away learning a LOT. Some from the many people on this BB in which I have respect for.

I can tell you this-when someone asks a question from which I have learned in the past I gladly help them and move on because I know they are learning as well. Thank you once again for your deep seated concern and feeling you need to "police" my patterns. If you will excuse me I need to go, I just bit my tongue on my cheek.

[David A. Andersen]

Ouch !

It looks like I struck a nerve.

Again, I apologize, and I have apologized to those that have responded to my post as well.

I didn't want to respond to each of your paragraphs as they are obviously an emotional response to the truth. Focusing on issues such as whether you like cornflakes or not is not the point.

Let me reiterate the important stuff;

I think you need to look at your SOP and follow it.

You're opening yourself up to a lawsuit which is unnecessary. You are not providing your client with any useful information when it's wrong.

Everyone here wants to stay out of court. I hope you do too!

I notice that you post a lot of questions on this bulletin board concerning the inspections that you do. They seem to be excessivly minor for someone who's been around as long as you have.

I invite you and anyone else to review the threads that you have initiated (I have).

The questions that you have initiated as a whole are issues that should be understood as basic concepts of home inspections, which should be understood by every home inspector by the time they begin inspecting for a paying client.

You keep referring to yourself as a " newbie". This, as well as the posts that you initiate lead me to believe that you are completely unsure with yourself and what you're doing and home inspection business. You are second-guessing everything that you do.

There is nothing wrong with asking a question. There is never a stupid question! Actually, that's fine. It makes all us "old folks" think about it for a while. However, my concern is that you may be depending on the responses of this website to formulate your inspection report, and that is not appropriate!

There are a lot of people on this board that agree with this concept. However, it appears that a lot of the people that respond to you are falling into the game of answering the superfluous question. We are like to test ourselves. It's like answering the question of the day! Those that jump in and answer your questions feel good about themselves for helping out, and that is a plus to your posts.

There is a difference between clarification and education.

Education! This is the point of the post.

There is an abundance of educational opportunities through this bulletin board and NACHI that you can take advantage of.

There are a lot of people on this board like Paul Abernathy who provide massive amounts of information as well as provide formal education in their area of expertise. You don't need to tap the bulletin board dry of education because you don't want to attend these training programs.

If this is just the way you write to get a response for peoples opinions, so be it.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in writing this, which you reiterated as being your style. Give me a break.

the time I spend on this bulletin board is limited, though I try to read as much as I can because I always learn something.

I'm not as high and mighty as you posted, and my time is spent for myself as well as helping others. As I stated, I learn something every day and I expect everyone else to also. I'm not telling you not to try to learn something here. I'm pointing out that you have certain responsibilities to yourself and to your clients past and future. "My time is limited" so I don't want you to think that I'm sitting here picking apart every single thing that's going on. I'm not!

Again, I am by no means trying to degrade any question that anyone posts to this board.