Level condensers

[cbottger]

Originally Posted by kswift

The reason that I've called out unlevel units was because of what I assumed could be undue stress on the fan blade bearing. A defensible idea?

Just depends on your definition of un-level. My personal definition is common sense.

[David A. Andersen]

Tipping and moving compressors can also cause can cause leaks in refrigerant lines.

Ask Charlie he may know better, I've never seen a leak caused by an uneven condenser. HV/R copper lines are strong enough to hang the residential condenser by and not leak.

undue stress on the fan blade

Please post your findings!
Some commercial fans are installed on a 45 degree angle.
Motors that are vertical wear the lower bearing first because of the gravity pressure on the bearing. I may be an old dog, but I'm willing to learn new tricks!

[cbottger]

David I agree have never observed a leak caused by an un-level A/C unit if they move around from vibration you have a more serious problem than a leak.
I have on numerous occasions when the unit was setting to close to the home scoot it out a bit in order to read the name plate data you can unless the stub out on the copper is to short but if the installer left a dog leg in the lines with any length I will have no problem doing this and I know I am going to be flamed for making this statement. Those copper lines are a lot more flexable than most realize. I am just trying to give examples of how flexable copper lines are.

As to an un-level condenser causing un-do stress on the fan bearings holds no validity with me just not justified in that statement. Take for an example an attic power fan mounted thru the pitch of a 4-12 roof that fan motor is no different bearing or shaft wise than a condenser fan motor so are we going to jack the foundation up to make the fan motor level.

[sparksnmore]

In 37 years of servicing HVAC I don’t recall ever seeing:

1. A condensing unit without several drain holes.
2. Damage to any compressor or motors caused by unit being out of level
3. A loss of refrigerant oil due to refrigerant leaks large enough to cause compressor failure.
4. A condensing unit “walk” from being slightly out of level.

Charley definitely knows his stuff on this subject.

[William E. Siegel]

"The manufacturer installation instructions state that the unit must be level. If it's not, damage can result."

So, are you saying that the listing and labeling on the manufacture instructions is wrong and we dont need to follow it?

[cbottger]

No Bill S. I never stated not to follow MFG Install instructions. Just trying to make a point between un-level and common sense. I knew where this thread was going to go. There are those kinds of inspectors out their that would lay a level across the top of a condensing unit and if it was off bubble any, would write it up or write two pages why it should be level. I personally just have never had to call one as unlevel simply have not ran across any that according to my eye caused me any concern.

[Paul Pendley]

Originally Posted by kswift

The reason that I've called out unlevel units was because of what I assumed could be undue stress on the fan blade bearing. A defensible idea?

the unit should be level.. I think the responses have been about the drain instead of the pad/unit.

[Barry Adair]

The photographer (me) should admittedly pay better attention but here's an example on a new house. Plumb the garage wall (my fault) and you have a visibly noticeable slope on all 4 condensing units.
I wouldn't want the call that any of these puppies needed replacement because I didn't note this in the report as a repair item. Or the shims they borrowed from the fence pickets and rails on the next inspection. Shimmed units still slope.

[David A. Andersen]

What about the units being too close to each other and the wall? Competing for the same cooling air, and recycling the hot air into an adjacent condenser(raising the head pressure, power consumption and reducing life expectancy)?
The heck with level! Read the book.

Don't pull the book out on Charlie. He's forgotten more HVAC stuff than most will ever know!

The fact is that all this stuff you guys are "making up" about unlevel condensers have yet to be proven in the field to be viable!
The book wants the unit level, because that is a "Good place to start" , it only gets worse with time!

[jlybolt]

Some manufacturers state 18" mininum between units.

[David A. Andersen]

Some say 24".

How about the electrical access panel?

[Greg Veal]

Barry's example of the 4 new units installed on the driveway, less than 6" from the Garage door, without any protection from being hit. What about spacing between each unit and I only see 2 single disconnects.
Stupid? yeah, In my area, it would not meet code!
At minimum, (1) pipe bollard at each unit, minimum of 24" -30" seperation, depending on side of unit and Manuf's spec's.

Makes me wonder what "whoever" must have been thinking, when adding wood shims under the pads, sitting on the driveway. G/C or HVAC Contr. Tech.?
Stupid? yeah, Rotting from day one? you bet, No Code violation though!

You know, I think we all assume it takes professionals to build a house. Little things like this example is what drives me crazy, and makes me second guess the entire job. You just have too, when you see stuff like we do.
Fair?, probably not.

I try to work from knowledge and experience, and note and report with common sense. It's kept me out of trouble so far.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by gveal

You know, I think we all assume it takes professionals to build a house.

And they do, indeed, make mistakes. That's why all of us inspect brand new homes that have never been lived in. That's also why I find it helpful to my Clients, as well as profitable to my business, to go back and re-inspect whatever work the sellers or those hired by the sellers have performed as listed on the buyer's request for repairs.

[cbottger]

Originally Posted by badair

The photographer (me) should admittedly pay better attention but here's an example on a new house. Plumb the garage wall (my fault) and you have a visibly noticeable slope on all 4 condensing units.
I wouldn't want the call that any of these puppies needed replacement because I didn't note this in the report as a repair item. Or the shims they borrowed from the fence pickets and rails on the next inspection. Shimmed units still slope.

Barry; were those wood shims placed under the units as a result of your report with the two pics makes me think they were before and after.

As already stated I would be more concerned about the distance between the units than the levelness. I guarantee after 15 years if they last that long they would have died as a result of excessive heat rather the units being un-level
If you choose to not believe this statement why don't you just make a phone call to Carrier or what ever MFG you choose and ask to speak with a service rep and don't tell them you are an HI just pretend you own a HVAC company are are working on one of their units and have determined the the compressor has failed due to the unit being un-level and just set back and listen. His statement will be yes the unit should have been level and then he will ask you how much it was out. Then he is going to tell you to start looking for another reason for the failure.

To me in viewing your pics I would not have placed those units on the repair list as the shims look terrible

[cbottger]

Originally Posted by dandersen

What about the units being too close to each other and the wall? Competing for the same cooling air, and recycling the hot air into an adjacent condenser(raising the head pressure, power consumption and reducing life expectancy)?
The heck with level! Read the book.

Don't pull the book out on Charlie. He's forgotten more HVAC stuff than most will ever know!

The fact is that all this stuff you guys are "making up" about unlevel condensers have yet to be proven in the field to be viable!
The book wants the unit level, because that is a "Good place to start" , it only gets worse with time!

Thanks David for the compliment but you probally went over kill on me as I was still learning the day I retired. Your not to shabby yourself, very precise very technical