Shut off gas if leaking?

[relliott]

It is a serious subject that I feel strongly about.
Risking anything should not be decided by us.
I have shut down two units putting families in serious danger in the last month.
I can repost if you like.
I had a fire Marshall at my side on one of them.
We made the guy fix it before we left, asit was pumping gas into a room full of children.
Thanks to my Tiff , we knew to correct the problem at the union , right outside of the return.
So forgive me if I get into a Tiff when I see this subject taken lightly.

[Michael Larson]

And how long had it been leaking?

Not trying to diminish safety concerns in any way.

I have a tif 880A. It's very very sensitive.

[relliott]

The tenant told me she had been smelling gas in the whole apt.
Four children.
I smelled it as soon as I opened the front door.
The HVAC unit was in a closet outside the apt unit, with a return that was cut into the closet as the duct was missing.

Look on the left for the wall vent cover to the interior.
[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[Brian E. Kelly]

If you can smell a leak Bob, why use the gizmo?

The tiff meters detect leaks about two magnitudes smaller than allowable.

Mechanical joints leak, period. Just because YOU can not detect a leak does not mean there are no leaks.

You want no detectable leaks, get a welded system.

[Jon Randolph]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

If you can smell a leak Bob, why use the gizmo?

The tiff meters detect leaks about two magnitudes smaller than allowable.

Mechanical joints leak, period. Just because YOU can not detect a leak does not mean there are no leaks.

You want no detectable leaks, get a welded system.

With the proper use of pipe dope and/or teflon tape and the small amount of pressure (usually less than 5 psi.) actually on the gas line inside the home, there should be no leaks. Yes the Tiff is very sensitive and will pick up small leaks at several magnitudes lower than what would cause a problem, but a leak is a leak and should be repaired regardless of the size. I recommend that any and every gas leak I find be repaired by a licensed plumber.

Do I turn the gas off.....depends. The LEL (lower explosive limit) for natural gas is 5% or 50,000 ppm in room air. We smell the mercaptan added to the odorless natural gas at around 1% or 10,000 ppm. The TIFF 8800 detects flammable gas as low as 50 ppm (.005%). Gas does readilly disipate into the air and a small leak will not build up in a large area fast enough to cause an immediate problem.

Without an exact measurement on the gas amount in the air, if the TIFF detects gas and I do not smell gas in a large area, it needs to be repaired but gas stays on. If the leak is in a small area (closet, utility room, etc) that could be closed off to allow the gas to build, the gas should be shut off if you can smell it at the leak(s). If I do smell the gas in the area away from the leak, it is at least 1/5 of its explosive limit and the gas should be shut off to get the leak safely repaired.

BTW, I also use a TPI775 that digitally displays between 50 and 50,000 ppm flamable gas to get a more accurate reading of the area.

[relliott]

If you can smell it , it is a problem.
I used to run gas pipe everyday for Sears, and yes would check for leaks with a lighter , like a dummy.
Funny thing is I had a kitchen flare out on me one day when I went to move a stove to change the old flex and it was one of those old Brass recalled models.
All my hair was singed,as I should have blown out the damn pilots first.
Sometimes a spark is all it takes.
I was managing across the street from a whole block of houses that caught fire when a main suddenly had the pressure regulater give way.
The pilots flared like jets.
Gas is not a toy.

[cduphily]

"always"

Every leak I find gets turned off, the seller, buyer and RE Agents are informed it needs immediate attention.

[Andrew W. Hinz]

Robert,
Of course it's not OK! And of course a leak is always a write-up. Bite my head off why don't ya! The question was just do you or don't you shut off the gas. Lets say - vacant house, freezing temps, and its a tiny leak outside. You shut off the gas and let all the plumbing freeze? I don't. I leave the gas on, call someone who cares and tell them it needs immediate repair, and report the issue as "in need of repair".
No sleeping children next to the leak. Talk about going overboard.

[jkogel]

Is it normal and acceptable for a propane regulator to give off a bit of gas occasionally? This is a serious question, as I wouldn't panic unless there was a strong smell in or under the house.

[relliott]

I guess my earlier post did not go through and it said..
Brian the Tiff is a great way to locate the exact point of a leak.
Andrew sorry if you took it the wrong way as I was addressing the subject and not slamming you.

[Andrew W. Hinz]

No problem. In reality were probably about on the same page here. I agree that "if you can smell it, its a problem".

jkogel - I pretty sure that a regulator should not give off any gas. My TIFF has gone off on them before and I write it up. I'm hoping someone with more certainty will reply on the matter.

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by ahinz

I pretty sure that a regulator should not give off any gas. My TIFF has gone off on them before and I write it up. I'm hoping someone with more certainty will reply on the matter.

I thought that was the reason propane bottles and regulators are kept outside - because they give off gas.

[rgallahorn]

I replied sometimes because "always" leaves no room for the various situations we come across. If the house is vacant or no one is in attendance, by all means yes. If the seller is present, I inform them of my discovery and allow them to make the call. If the seller decides to turn it off, it doesn't fit the "always" category. If the homeowner does not want it off for whatever the reason, I do not turn it off. That being said, I will not leave a significant safety hazard without all parties notified.

By the way, do you turn off electrical too if you see chaffed or brunt wires?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by cduphily

"always"

Every leak I find gets turned off, the seller, buyer and RE Agents are informed it needs immediate attention.

What if it's a FSBO and there are no agents involved? Informing the buyer doesn't mean a thing. If the home is vacant, how do you find and contact the seller? What if the seller is in France and you can't reach them?

You've just shut off the heat to a home in the winter. Hope you have good insurance.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Playing devil's advocate here. For those that "always" tun off the gas when you encounter a leak, I suppose you also...

• Turn off the main breaker when you find a house with aluminum wiring, especially if the house is occupied by helpless, adorable, little children.
• Unplug the refrigerator when you find out the outlet its plugged in to is missing a ground.
• Call the fire department when you find a defective or missing smoke detector.
• Turn off the water heater when you find a draft hood mis-aligned.
• Call the state health dept. when you find probable asbestos.
• Post hazard warning tape around a deck you consider unsafe.
• etc.
• etc.