Shut off gas if leaking?

[Jon Randolph]

Originally Posted by jkogel

Is it normal and acceptable for a propane regulator to give off a bit of gas occasionally? This is a serious question, as I wouldn't panic unless there was a strong smell in or under the house.

Yes it is natural. As the pressure is reduced by the regulator, any excess pressure (propane) is vented. Increased pressure downstream of the regulator is common, especially if it is cold outside. LP is liquid in the tank, it gets colder as it becomes a gas because it's boiling point is very low. As the propane gas warms up it expands like anything else and increases the pressure in the lines, causing a small release.

Regulators are normally outside of the home. If/when they are located inside, the vent MUST be piped to the exterior of the structure.

There shouldn't be any propane present in or under a home. (outside of the lines and appliances, of course) If the regulator is vented inside the home or to the crawl, it is dead wrong.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by Jon Randolph

With the proper use of pipe dope and/or teflon tape and the small amount of pressure (usually less than 5 psi.) actually on the gas line inside the home, there should be no leaks. Yes the Tiff is very sensitive and will pick up small leaks at several magnitudes lower than what would cause a problem, but a leak is a leak and should be repaired regardless of the size. I recommend that any and every gas leak I find be repaired by a licensed plumber.

.

10-3 = 1 cc/hour (a cc an hour is bubble tight and can be seen with soapy water)
10-4 = 1 cc/3 hours

These are roughly the acceptable leak rates for gas lines with threaded fittings.

I think a tiff might detect into this range
10-5 = 1 cc in 24 hours
10-6 = 1 cc/2 weeks

Be careful telling someone there are no leaks, no detectable leaks is a better way to say it.
http://www.hivacspecialists.com/leakage.html

http://seniordesign.engr.uidaho.edu/...ks/testing.htm

Leakage Tightness
Leakage tightness is a relative term. Too often specifications are given in unrealistic terms such as leak tight or no leakage However, nothing made by man can ever be completely free of leakage and, in most cases, it is uneconomic to even try. A balance must be struck between the increasing cost of finding smaller leaks and their importance to the functioning of the unit over its useful life. Leakage tight therefore has no meaning except in relation to the substance which is to be contained, its normal operating conditions, and the objectives with respect to safety, contamination, and reliability. Leakage tight is the practical leakage which is acceptable under normal circumstances, i.e., clearly a gravel truck need not be free of water leakage.

http://www.amgas.com/ldrefpage.htm



Science is fun

[Joe Farsetta]

Jon, Joe F, and Brian...

My thoughts exactly.

Despite what anyone thinks, we have no legal authority nor duty to simply turn off the gas to a dwelling.

No, we have no AUTHORITY, as we are not a public official nor do we work for (or are indemnified) by a public utility.

We have no DUTY to turn off the gas, In fact, many could argue that our only DUTY is to NOTIFY a person who either represents the owner or the authorities.

If we SHUT OFF the gas to a dwelling, when the connection to a gas dryer is leaking (as opposed to simply shutting off the gas to the dryer, if we are so inclined), and the occupant catches pneumonia and DIES as a result, because he/she simply does not have the money to pay for a repair on a weekend, we have overstepped our boundaries as HOME INSPECTORS.

We can, and should, notify the proper parties, especially if the occupant complains of smelling gas.

Once we state, for the record, that we have a legal and ethical DUTY to ACT, then Joe Funderburk raises the larger spectre:

WHERE DOES IT STOP?

Beyond that, science and reality play and important role in all of this, as well.

Do we call the police when we dont see working carbon monoxide and smoke detectors in the home? Why not shut the gas off then, as well?

Far more people perish each year as a result of both than seen from a minor gas leak.

[Blaine Wiley]

When I went through home inspector training in the dark ages, we were taught to call the authorities if we suspected a gas leak, period. We were further instructed to vacate the home and call the fire dept. because they were fully educated upon how to best deal with the issue.

I know that when I inspected in VA, the gas company would be out immediately if a leak was suspected, as well as the FD.

[Christopher Currins]

Explosion levels Belleville home
05/02/2008

A man was seriously hurt early today when an apparent natural gas explosion leveled his home in Belleville.


A fire investigator makes his way through the rubble of a home at 1313 Orchard Street early today. The home was leveled in an apparent natural gas explosion about 4:30 a.m. in Belleville.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by ccurrins

Explosion levels Belleville home
05/02/2008

A man was seriously hurt early today when an apparent natural gas explosion leveled his home in Belleville.


A fire investigator makes his way through the rubble of a home at 1313 Orchard Street early today. The home was leveled in an apparent natural gas explosion about 4:30 a.m. in Belleville.

This, I believe, is a gas leak thread, not a gas expolsion thread Chris.

[Andrew W. Hinz]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Playing devil's advocate here. For those that "always" tun off the gas when you encounter a leak, I suppose you also...

• Turn off the main breaker when you find a house with aluminum wiring, especially if the house is occupied by helpless, adorable, little children.
• Unplug the refrigerator when you find out the outlet its plugged in to is missing a ground.
• Call the fire department when you find a defective or missing smoke detector.
• Turn off the water heater when you find a draft hood mis-aligned.
• Call the state health dept. when you find probable asbestos.
• Post hazard warning tape around a deck you consider unsafe.
• etc.
• etc.

Wow, what an argument. There are some real teeth in this one if you ask me.

[Joe Farsetta]

My point exactly.

[relliott]

Andrew that is not playing Devils Advocate.
That is playing sarcasim card in light of a logical answer.
You gotta be carefull tossing around that word ,on the same thread as the inventor of Devils Advocate.

[Jack L. Gilleland]

You know of all the groups I've worked with I expected this one to show signs of common sense.
If the leak is barely detectable and it is -2 degrees outside then I don't turn the heat off. Talk about a liability.
HEADLINE - DAYTON DAILY NEWS - IDIOT HOME INSPECTOR CAUSES CHILDREN TO FREEZE
I would try to isolate the area and shut off that branch. I would attempt to minimize the danger to the inhabitants above all else.

[relliott]

Jack what if the small leak is from a corroded pipe , with a pinhole in the middle of a rusty nipple next to a burner?

Yes, use common sense, but remember the Headline could read....

DAYTON DAILY NEWS - IDIOT HOME INSPECTOR CAUSES CHILDREN TO DIE in GAS EXPLOSION.
STATES HIS SOP DOES NOT ALLOW USING SHUTOFF..

[Christopher Currins]

Originally Posted by jgilleland

You know of all the groups I've worked with I expected this one to show signs of common sense.
If the leak is barely detectable and it is -2 degrees outside then I don't turn the heat off. Talk about a liability.
HEADLINE - DAYTON DAILY NEWS - IDIOT HOME INSPECTOR CAUSES CHILDREN TO FREEZE
I would try to isolate the area and shut off that branch. I would attempt to minimize the danger to the inhabitants above all else.

I agree. I didn't understand the question to mean that you had to shut-off the main at the meter.

[Jack L. Gilleland]

I would try to isolate the area and shut off that branch. I would attempt to minimize the danger to the inhabitants above all else.

Bob I voted to shut the valve off, but as you can see above I would use common sense and weigh the outcome of my actions. D_mn if it meant that someone was in danger I might even fix the thing myself (at least temporarily). Hopefully, I'll never be stuck where the only 2 choices were letting children freeze or burn in an explosion. I'm pretty sure I could come up with a third option.

[relliott]

There you go.
I am sure you would make the right choice.

When running gas line for Sears , I discovered a big leak right in the middle of an elboe.
It turns out this was a big defect problem with a particular shipment from China.

Never made the news, which makes you wonder how much we never hear about.
Sorry to go off a little but I guess I have seen my share of gas dangers.

[mreusch]

I don't see how you can not shut it off. I myself do not want the liability of noting it in my report and then having something happen to the house. Would anyone?