Underground storage tank, heating oil? Please Help

[sglick]

Are there any concerns with an empty unused underground storage tank. My guess is that it used to be for heating oil. Sorry I did not take any pics. The only part that is visible is the cap and it just flips open. The buyer is concerned that he might have resale problems later and be responsible for a major clean up. EPA problems etc.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by sglick

Are there any concerns with an empty unused underground storage tank. My guess is that it used to be for heating oil. Sorry I did not take any pics. The only part that is visible is the cap and it just flips open. The buyer is concerned that he might have resale problems later and be responsible for a major clean up. EPA problems etc.

I personally would not buy a property with an buried unused tank but that is just me I would ask the owners to have it removed. But before I got that drastic I would contact the local DEQ as ask what the legal requirements were for present ownership and future ownership.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by sglick

Are there any concerns with an empty unused underground storage tank. My guess is that it used to be for heating oil. Sorry I did not take any pics. The only part that is visible is the cap and it just flips open. The buyer is concerned that he might have resale problems later and be responsible for a major clean up. EPA problems etc.

In our area it is required to be removed by a qualified company.
I would write this hard as It could come back to haunt you .
How do you know it is empty.
How do you know it has not had a hole punched in the bottom to let out the oil or it could have rusted out .
Contaminated soil costs about $4,000;00 a yard to be shipped away.
There could be up to $400,000:00 or more cleaning this up so do Not miss a buried oil tank in our area ,Ontario Canada.
I think this could call for an environmental impact study to be sure .
defiantly get your client to ask the authorities.
Please keep us posted .
.... Cookie

[sglick]

Thanks everyone.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Seth N. Glick;

Please heed this advice from above, this situation needs to be addressed promptly and would be a safety hazard left unnoticed and noted as such.

There is no such thing as an empty oil tank unless there is a hole in the bottom of the tank and then you have a DEP,EPA situation on your hands with the Client and could be held responsible.

Notify the Client to have the seller clean it up immediately before any anticipated closure of the deal.

Let us know what happened.

Marcel

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by cbottger

I personally would not buy a property with an buried unused tank but that is just me I would ask the owners to have it removed. But before I got that drastic I would contact the local DEQ as ask what the legal requirements were for present ownership and future ownership.

Ditto what Charlie and Roy have said, the average life expectancy of an underground tank is 20 years, as most of these were installed back in the 1970's they should all be concidered flawed, the cost of tank removal and mitigation can (as Roy stated) be horrendous.

Regards

Gerry

[Richard L. Bennett]

As a matter of note here in Fl if the tank is under a certain size the Fl EPA does not care

To compute the size one is to probe with a rod to get the aprox size and assume that it is pipe shape. Standard volume calculations are made and if you are under no big deal

The state EPA will help with all the information. There are so many of them they only care about the big ones

Good find - this might help both the seller and the buyer

Information is the answer as to the requirements in your area

rlb

[sglick]

What I found out in Utah:
If the tank is residential and under 1100 gallons the the EPA does not care and has no jurisdiction. It falls under the local Fire Marshall, so you need to check locally on any requirements. However there still could be problems if the ground has been contaminated, but there is no way to know that unless you dig up the tank. At a minimum the tank should be cleaned and filled with sand to prevent the possibility of any future contamination and to prevent the ground from caving in with the tank. I would still recommend inspect by a professional and that they make contact with the local EPA office and local officials because of the clean up potential. I do not think they see it as a big deal here in Utah because there are not very many of them here. I know it is a real big deal in NY because they are all over and still being used.

Thanks Everyone.

[ldapkus]

The State Fire Marshall in Illinois also has records of buried tanks beginning in 19??

[Larry D. Kage]

Underground oil tanks...

That reminds me of a “call” I received a year or so ago for an inspection that I did about 2 years before that.

Hi Larry, you did an inspection for me a couple years ago and I’m putting in footings for a block privacy wall and we think we hit an oil tank. Who’s responsible for that?

Well, let me dig out the report and get back to you…

I retrieve it and in the basement or heating section is this: “Two 3/8” copper lines cut off near the furnace exiting through the basement wall indicate the potential for an underground buried oil tank. I recommend further investigation by a qualified professional, with remedial action as needed, before the close of escrow.”

So to be helpful, on the way to another inspection I stop over there and talk and I end up giving him a couple of names of people that deal in that sort of thing. Someone cut the fill/vent pipes below grade but didn't think anyone would notice the other lines, I guess.

He was happy, since the tank was dry, and I was happy to help.

He built a really nice wall, too.

[mthomas2]

Anytime there is a residential or light commercial heating oil spill or leak, anywhere in the system, you are potentially talking BIG bucks:

"In 2001, DEP conducted a survey of 510 homeowners who had experienced a home heating system oil spill. Questions included how long the cleanup had taken, the costs involved, and whether soil and/or groundwater were affected. Cost data were provided by 159 homeowners.

Costs were significantly lower when homeowners cleaned up spills quickly and prevented impacts to groundwater. Prompt cleanups also minimized disruption and reduced the potential for exposure of family members or neighbors to the oil. Survey data indicated that spills that had time to spread to groundwater were significantly more expensive to clean up.

Most cleanups completed in four months or less: $20,000 or less.

Typical cleanup cost range: $20,000 to $50,000.

Average cleanup costs involving both soil and groundwater: $90,000.

On the high end, DEP survey results showed some cleanup costs exceeded $300,000. While the survey answers were not detailed enough to show all the factors that caused costs to escalate to this level, impact to groundwater was a factor..."

http://www.mass.gov/dep/cleanup/homework.pdf

One of the better "end user" articles I've found on this issue:

http://www.newsday.com/features/home...7731926.column

[Richard L. Bennett]

To see how bad this problem is

We have properties that are so bad here in town that one can not even give them away

Bank will not loan money on them etc. The sale value of the property is less that the clean up. The original owner will be leasing it for ever to some one - he can't sell it

Clean up is out of the question

Many have decided to "clean up" under the table and have it tested (which it will) and keep their mouth shut

And if you sell to a gas station they are most times exempt

You also donate the property to a church or the city etc.

So take the tank out at nite and sell it for scrap

As an inspector you did a good job and you might have done a deal breaker that in reality is no big deal

Look at it this way what if the owner wants to still use the tank -- It is still legal if he wants to and it is in good condition.

Local conditions must be checked - In some areas a septic tank must be inspected now and then with local permits renewed

Bless the government

rlb

[Brian E. Kelly]

This might help
http://www.edrnet.com/index.php?opti...133&Itemid=253

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

I disclaim anything underground in my agreement. Nevertheless, I say this when I come across one:

"One or more underground fuel storage tanks likely exist on the property, as we noticed a fill pipe in the yard. As mentioned in our contract, we do not inspect underground storage tanks. We offer this information as a courtesy and you may want to further investigate the tank, its contents, and the potential environmental ramifications associated with its presence."

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

I did a very small Home In the country 4 years ago found inside oil tank had leaked 100 gallons.
House sold for $79"000:00 on condition it had the oil contamination cleaned up .
Clean up cost $76'000;00 .
Not much profit there.
Today that would cost a lot more to clean up.
Please do not miss an oil leak.

.......... Cookie