What's Your Narrative on This One?

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by kwood

You had to pull out the code BEN didn't you. Now this thread is going to be 100 posts long. LOL

Code... The foundation of all inspection truth.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

Code... The foundation of all inspection truth.

I disagree.

Understanding why the code exists is.

I'm not a code inspector, are you?

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by mlarson

I disagree.

Understanding why the code exists is.

I'm not a code inspector, are you?

facetious

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

facetious

No need to site code ever if you understand why it is there and an explain it.

Nothing facetious(lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous) at all.

I thought you would know that

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by mlarson

No need to site code ever if you understand why it is there and an explain it.

True for reporting issues. In fact the words "code" and "violation" shouldn't be in a report, except to disclaim them.

But in a forum like this sometimes it's helpful to quote where that information came from (particularly for safety and installation related issues), so that members can verify the requirements for themselves. I think it's a good habit to get into, and I encourage that. Not that anyone ever posts incorrect answers to questions ...

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by roconnor

True for reporting issues. In fact the words "code" and "violation" shouldn't be in a report, except to disclaim them.

But in a forum like this sometimes it's helpful to quote where that information came from (particularly for safety and installation related issues), so that members can verify the requirements for themselves. I think it's a good habit to get into, and I encourage that. Not that anyone ever posts incorrect answers to questions ...

I am in complete agreement Robert

[John Scaparo]

The situation is a sad truth thas is done all to often. I visited my son off campus apartment and found this same heater in his bedroom. I contacted the land lord and asked it the fire dept approve the installation. He said yes and ask for proof of the certificate. He said he'll send it. A few days later my son said he was getting an electric heater replacement. The conditions of off campus housing is amazing. I think if you live in a collge town you could market saftey inspections as an added service.

[Gary Farnsworth]

Most college towns require fire inspections every year. However, they often do not get told of where these "multi-occupied" residences are. A lot of insurance companies are getting involved with campus housing, and are hiring their own inspectors to check properties. Off-campus is another story.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by roconnor

True for reporting issues. In fact the words "code" and "violation" shouldn't be in a report, except to disclaim them.

But in a forum like this sometimes it's helpful to quote where that information came from (particularly for safety and installation related issues), so that members can verify the requirements for themselves. I think it's a good habit to get into, and I encourage that. Not that anyone ever posts incorrect answers to questions ...

I think Nick and Kenton put it really well...

"Inspectors should follow the same rules as building codes by providing more information about conditions or situations which carry high liability, but quoting building codes in a narrative is not a good idea. Home inspections are not code inspections -- they are inspections for safety and system defects. For reasons related to liability, it’s important to keep the two separate. If an inspector quotes a code in a narrative, an attorney may argue that the inspector was performing a code inspection and was responsible for finding all code violations.

Because building codes were developed to address safety in buildings, it’s difficult to avoid referring to them occasionally. When a narrative refers to building codes, it’s better to use a different term, such as “modern safety standards” or “generally accepted current standards.”

That's from a recent article http://www.nachi.org/writing-report-narratives.htm

[Joe Farsetta]

Ben,

All of what you said is valid, except for one important piece you left out; you need to refer to the correct code when you quote it.

In your Code quote, you mentioned surgical rooms. For yoiur quote to be valid, you would need to know whether the IRC is applicable, or if NFPA 101 applies. For virtually EVERY hospital setting in the United States, the NFPA Life/Safety Code applies, and the IRC does not when pertaining to life and safety.

Beyond that, I really do not care other than to observe and report on the readily apparent condition of the system seen at the time of the inspection, using non invasive inspection techniques.

Even using this limited approach, your photo has LOTS of defects worthy of reporting, and which will provide the correct commentary, which states in flowery terms that the system shown is a piece of crap that will likely injure or kill someone while in operation.

I'm getting so jaded that I will probably start using narratives similar to the one mentioned above. I may even create a reporting package that includes this type of narrative. I'll call it "Jaded Inspector Report Writing Software". I'll bet I sell a ton of them.

Keep the Client informed. Keep the report simple. Say what you feel...

[James H. Bushart]

If you are an inspector who only works when local real estate agents allow you to ... you need to be very careful to never recommend anything to your client that would exceed the very minimum basic standard commonly referred to as "code".

Soft report writers will always want to know the date that a minimum standard was first written into the books so that he can omit references to certain potentially "deal killing" material defects from his reports ... disregarding the personal health, safety and well being of the people trusting him to perform an unbiased inspection and provide a complete and thorough report.

I'm not making this up. Our message board is littered with requests for information where some inspector wants to know "what year" GFCI receptacles were first required to be within reach of the sink (or some other life saving measure) before recommending that the unsafe condition be upgraded.

We should know the standards, of course ... but we should not apply them since many of them reflect less than what is best for our clients. I often refer to the government standard that allows some ... but not "too much" ... rat feces in lunch meat. I prefer to call out ALL of the "rat crap" (figuratively speaking, of course) I find and ignore the standard that allows otherwise. OSHA's so-called "standards" have not been changed since 1971 and factories around the nation are allowed to ignore and disregard safety measures that have been developed since then as they endanger their employees to make profits. They like to point to their "code" book, too, when it keeps them from providing the best that is available.

If something is unsafe ... and allowed by code ... it is still unsafe and needs to be reported no matter how vigorusly the used house salesman might object.

I agree with Joe and the concept that we have more of a duty to be straightforward and honest with our client and less "politically correct" in an attempt to be soft writing "non-alarmists" who are using narratives to recruit used house salesmen for referral purposes.

Tell it like it is. If it's broke ... it's broke.

[Charles L. Harper]

"Unsafe at any speed". Older folks here might remember that one.
Ralph Nader - Corvair.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Originally Posted by rstrand

Room should be quite comfortable during the winter months. I would recommend to the realtor that this feature be included in the listing information.