Why amp meters

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by dedwards

I do not disagree with any of the reasons you gave for troubleshooting the equipment but I shudder to think of some of the new untrained inspectors putting their "skinners" inside the electrical section and getting their YO-YO knocked into their watchpocket. I would venture to say the majority do not have a clue as to the proper way to use or read an amp meter or probe. If it isn't working, using normal operating controls, write it up for the professional. I had to fix my own furnace this morning but I know how but I would never dream of doing anything like that on an inspection. Ive been asked on occasion to override the thermostat with a jumper but refused. The dink that asked me to was the kind of SoB that would later come back and hit me for a new piece of equipment.

You are probably right most do not have the ability but that is why I say educate educate educate.

My personal belief is if someone decides they want to be an HI they should at least go to a Vo Tech and get some basic training on the fundamentals of the mechanics. This business is just not about sticking your head in a electric panel or operating an A/C unit from the thermostat you should have a basic understanding of the big picture. This state only requires 50 hours of class room training and to pass a test that most 5th graders could pass with just a little studying. To me this does not qualify you to be a HI

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by rcooke

I wonder how many have you done and found nothing .
Now if you balance out all the time you spent finding nothing wrong with the electric element .
It would be interesting to see how many elements you could have bought with this time spent.
I do not take my clamp on with me as I feel this is an electricians job the same as I do not check how many inches of water the gas pressure is.
Not My job.
My openion others may disagree.

Roy Cooke

I agree, Roy.

It seems that we bring with us, as home inspectors, a penchant for our specialties.

As generalists performing non-invasive observations of the systems listed in the SOP, and reporting on them, we are performing the work of a home inspector.

Those who say they "exceed" this standard (which is not "exceeding", but simply applying a different and unrecorded standard) are usually doing so in their own special area of expertise.

If you were to spend the time looking beneath the attic insulation for joist defects (and so on, and so on) it would take 16 hours for an average inspection.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I agree, Roy.

It seems that we bring with us, as home inspectors, a penchant for our specialties.

As generalists performing non-invasive observations of the systems listed in the SOP, and reporting on them, we are performing the work of a home inspector.

Those who say they "exceed" this standard (which is not "exceeding", but simply applying a different and unrecorded standard) are usually doing so in their own special area of expertise.

If you were to spend the time looking beneath the attic insulation for joist defects (and so on, and so on) it would take 16 hours for an average inspection.

James;

I think your exaggeration of 16 hours is a bit extreme I spend less time inspecting an electric furnace properly than I do on a gas furnace.

Would you consider a gas furnace with only 1/2 of the burners in use a properly operating furnace.

In my opinion an electric furnace deserves the same consideration either all of the elements are in use or they are not and just because you can not see them glowing in the dark is a lame duck excuse for not inspecting.

I give my clients the same consideration on any high dollar item outside of my field of expertise (example) roof, foundation as I do with the HVAC. I think the word generalist gives you tunnel vision.

[David A. Andersen]

In this case, I would agree that it is not likely that the Inspector will get unquestionably blamed if an electrical element is burnt, because is it difficult to determine when the failure occurred.

However, If there is a way to know something for sure, why not try to protect yourself with this knowledge?

This crap about "not knowing how to do something" is BS.
How many Inspectors are in the Mold, Termite, IR, Radon fields?
That is outside Home Inspection, but HI's LEARN ALL ABOUT THAT. Knowing for sure that the things that are Inside the Scope of HI are operating IS important. It's All about ME! Me knowing that something is/is not an issue. Anyone can come back on you when something breaks. Why put yourself at risk more than necessary?

If your defence is going to be that you turned on the t-stat and "felt" warm air come out, rather than you stuck an Amp-probe on it and verified to yourself that it was in fact working, relying on some written contract or SOP for protection than you must be asleep because you are dreaming! These written documents are not going to save you like you think.

I just got done with an Arbitration on a case I was listed as a defendant with others. Of the 14 issues the plaintiff was complaining about, 5 were outside of the HI SOP, the rest were addressed (numerous times) in the inspection report. The plaintiff agreed about the 5 being outside SOP. Still, it cost me $5k to make things go away. I did nothing wrong in my inspection, but it still cost me. The plaintiff was asking for $109,000.00 settlement. Why was I able to settle for only $5k? Because I was able to show, beyond a shadow of a doubt! The Clerk & Master said she had never seen a case in this amount be settled for so little! So, what amount do you guys prefer to settle for when you get to court?

As far as the Inspection Contract you hold so dear, numerous parts of the contract were attacked or rejected. A motion to dismiss was kicked out on arbitration issues. Limited Liability issues were not accepted by the court.
If I had not succeeded in settling my way out of this case my ***** would likely be fried in front of a jury, regardless of my doing the inspection by the book!
If I was found not guilty, my cost for defence on the numerous ludacris allegations made up by the plaintiffs' lawyer could unlikely be paid for by a bankrupt plaintiff, and I would have likely just upped my Lawyers bill to try to collect.

Buy the way to add insult to near injury, I was almost killed conducting a re-inspection in this case when a defective electrical panel, identified in the HI Report was not repaired by a Licenced Electrician and exploded in my face.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by dandersen

However, If there is a way to know something for sure, why not try to protect yourself with this knowledge?

This crap about "not knowing how to do something" is BS.
How many Inspectors are in the Mold, Termite, IR, Radon fields?
That is outside Home Inspection, but HI's LEARN ALL ABOUT THAT. Knowing for sure that the things that are Inside the Scope of HI are operating IS important. It's All about ME! Me knowing that something is/is not an issue. Anyone can come back on you when something breaks. Why put yourself at risk more than necessary?

If your defence is going to be that you turned on the t-stat and "felt" warm air come out, rather than you stuck an Amp-probe on it and verified to yourself that it was in fact working, relying on some written contract or SOP for protection than you must be asleep because you are dreaming! These written documents are not going to save you like you think.



.

Very nice statement David

I do not depend on the sop to CYA I depend on my ability to perform a good and knowledgable inspection thru training in all aspects of a Full House Inspection from ridge line to the foundation. I was inspecting long before SOP became a part of the way we do business in this state and I did not adjust the way I inspect after SOP?????

[Jae Williams]

"Buy the way to add insult to near injury, I was almost killed conducting a re-inspection in this case when a defective electrical panel, identified in the HI Report was not repaired by a Licenced Electrician and exploded in my face."
David Anderson

The only time I was asked to reinspect a repaired service panel I asked the seller if she had the paperwork from the electrician handy. I explained that it wasn't about inspecting -- it was about my safety. I wanted to see what he had done in the panel.

The lady hemmed around her haws a bit and then said that her father (not an electrician) did the repair.

I went outside with the prospective buyer and explained why I was leaving.

I will not enter a panel in need of repair knowing it may be even less safe than before. It also made a statement to the seller (and buyer) -- hire an expert!

[Gary Reecher]

Originally Posted by cbottger

I performed a inspection yesterday so far in the boonies that my cell phone had no service????

This inspection was what I call a typical farm or redneck type of home. The electrical made the hair on the back of my neck stand up and I won't go into all of the Gorey details as I listed over 2k in repairs.

I would like to express the importance of a good amp meter as there were two items that would never have been detected if the meter had not been used.

The bottom element on the electric hot water heater was not working drawing no amps with the tank full of cold water.





The electrical heat strips for the furnace had a bank of 3 elements and the center bank was cycling on a safety control on and off with the stat turned as high as it would go. This would not have been detected with out the amp meter.

Bottom line give your clients a run for their money. This was all detected with just the removal of normal excess panels.

On electric water heaters if the tank is dead cold the top element energizes first. When the water in the top portion is sufficiently heated the upper thermostat switches and routes power to the lower thermostat. That water heats up and when water reaches temp the lower thermostat opens. Until you know that the top thermostat was satisifed checking the amp draw on the lower element proves nothing.

Gary

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by Gary Reecher

On electric water heaters if the tank is dead cold the top element energizes first. When the water in the top portion is sufficiently heated the upper thermostat switches and routes power to the lower thermostat. That water heats up and when water reaches temp the lower thermostat opens. Until you know that the top thermostat was satisifed checking the amp draw on the lower element proves nothing.

Gary

Gary:
Gary I was born at night but not last night.
I was in the house almost 4 hours the element never did activate??????

[dspencer]

We all know anyone can be a HI and the one who knows little just follows the SOP.....I like the Husband/Wife teams the best Ohio has plenty of them

Being better is easy.