What is your HVAC procedure?

[Gary T. Heller]

I agree with Doug and Charlie's post. i think an inspection takes as long as it takes. I have, on occasion, told the client to come at a certain time only to have them wait around for over an hour while I finish. Too meticulous or not skilled in HVAC or electrical systems is not the problem. It is always how many things you find on the inspection.

A dirty or incorrect filter means a closer look at the coil. A panel that has sloppy wiring methods requires longer to inspect than one done by a competent electrician etc.

Many of the newer homes in Arizona have gas heat with two air handlers in the attic and electric a/c with 2 condensers on the back yard. How long do you think it should take to inspect both units per the SOP???

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by gheller

I have, on occasion, told the client to come at a certain time only to have them wait around for over an hour while I finish.

I tell my Clients to come at the beginning of the inspection. I want them to see how hard I work for them, and the interaction over 2-3 hours helps establish that all-important rapport that is important in convincing them that they can call me at any time for any reason. I'm working for them at the inspection and 24/7 afterwards, as long as they are alive.

Originally Posted by gheller

Many of the newer homes in Arizona have gas heat with two air handlers in the attic and electric a/c with 2 condensers on the back yard. How long do you think it should take to inspect both units per the SOP???

15 minutes for each, so 1 hour total. However, one can do a lot of things concurrently while the units are running.

[Gary T. Heller]

You make a great point Russel. Next time I will encourage them to come as early as they like and see how hard I am working for them.

The original post at the start of this thread was for a procedure when evaluating HVAC. While I am testing a unit there isn't anything else I can do. By the time I set up my ladder, start the furnace, enter the attic and remove access panels, check the burners and heat exchanger, check evaporator drains and tattle tails, look at the condensate pan for rust etc, record the btu rating of the furnace, come back down and inspect air flow at each register, go back to the attic and re-assemble the unit, swap the t-stat to cooling mode. Now I have a bit of time while the unit is starting up and beginning to cool the house to gather all the info from the condensers. Next it is back inside to check air flow at each register and the split. If everything works right by the time I enter everything into the computer I have used 1 hour of inspection time.

I'm sure there is a better way but going through each step is the only way I feel I have inspected the two units.

[Charley L. Bottger]

I am going to break mine down into installments here is the first part.
Ok guys here goes, what I do as an HI. I am not going to try to make a HVAC tech out of you, but I do believe as an HI you should have some knowledge of what you are looking at, be able to identify components of a furnace and a A/C unit. I would highly recommend you go online to a Heating & Air Supply house and just go through their parts or get a catalog and study it.
Gas fired furnace up-flow or down flow with standing pilot light or igniter visual inspection includes removing the front excess panels. I do this before operating from the thermostat I look for burnt wires either from flames or electrical. Check the blower wheel for lint as this determines how often the filters have been maintained and the possibility of the A-coil being blocked with lint. Check for rust in the bottom of the burner chambers. View as much of the heat exchanger with a mirror as is possible. I do not have a scope but intend to add this in the future. Check for burnt areas on the exterior of the burner chamber for possible flame rollout.
This is when I operate from the thermostat then returning to the front of the furnace and check the color of the flame should be a nice blue with perhaps a small amount of orange at the very tip being acceptable. I step over the SOP at this point by removing one of the 24 volt wires on the top of the gas valve thus deactivating the gas control valve it should go closed and the flames extinguished. I do this to watch the ignition process when I replace the wire on the gas valve as it was not visible when I turned the unit on at the thermostat. Check for flame roll out or slow ignition.
I check at this point where the condensate from the A/C coil is discharging to and for any air loss around the supply plenum. Paying close attention for any opening in the return duct connections at the furnace do not want any non-conditioned air entering the system at this point depending on the location of the furnace.

I use a CO meter to test for carbon monoxide at the closet register from the furnace. Been lots of conversation/discussions on this item but I still perform my CO test. Found numerous cracked heat exchangers in my tenure. Had one recently that tested no CO but due to the physical appearance and age I suspected that the

Exchanger had problems and called for it to be checked and I was right it had a crack that the meter did not pick up. It’s called using your eyes and a gut feeling. I would much rather error on the side of caution than have someone die from CO.
Duct work is simple check for air loss and or lack of insulation in non-conditioned spaces. If a downflow furnace with a crawl space the plenum should not be resting on the ground as it will rust out. When performing this check I place the Thermostat in the ON position does two things insures the Stat works in the on position and allows me to find air leaks faster if the duct is installed in the crawl or the attic for that matter. Ducts in slab on grade foundations should be checked for free standing water or past watermarks from the register end. I do this as I inspect individual rooms. Ducts within a crawl space are checked for at least 6 inches of clearance to ground and must not be blocking excess to plumbing and should be properly attached to the floor joist. I personally do not like Flex duct in a crawl space but local AHJ allows it. SO be

[Charley L. Bottger]

Second installment
Ah electrical furnaces I do not just operate from the Stat I am a confirmed believer if you are not checking the amp draw on each individual element you are not performing for your client and believe this should be added to every SOP. For the naysayers concerning this check I am of the opinion if you can not perform an Amp check without getting electrocuted Perhaps you should find another profession.

Open the front cover of the furnace and check for loose/burnt wires ensuring that no one has removed or wired around the fusible links. Check for proper breaker and wire size to the furnace. When activated from the thermostat the blower should come on first then the elements will sequence on depending on the size of the sequencer. If 5 elements are installed you might see the first three elements come on and the 4th and 5th can be on the second stage of the thermostat thus would require setting the Stat on a high setting. This can and will vary between MFG

The A-coil, the blower and the duct work I treat the same as a gas furnace.

[sstowe]

Thanks for the great info so far.

[Russel Ray]

About half, maybe more, of what Charley does, is what licensed HVAC techs do here. Since I'm not a licensed HVAC tech, I don't do that. In fact, severe civil and criminal penalties are possible for practicing as an HVAC tech without a license. Thus, I have to just be a measly little home inspector/property consultant.

Gas-using appliances should be inspected/serviced/checked on an annual basis, so I advise my Clients that notwithstanding whether or not the heating and cooling system provide heated air or cooled air, respectively, "If it cannot be proven that the heating and cooling system has been inspected within the last twelve months, recommend complete system evaluation by licensed heating and cooling professional before close of escrow." It's terminology that has not only served me well, but also served my Clients well since many of them have gotten new furnaces, escrow credits, or reduced real estate purchase prices.

It's all in managing the Clients' expectations. I regularly tell my Clients that the State of California considers licensed professionals smarter/more intelligent/experts in their professions and that there are certain things in those licensed professions that I, as an unlicensed professional, cannot do, if not because of licensing procedures and legal requirements in this state, then because my various insurance policies (E&O/GL/Life/AD&D) won't pay if I'm doing things that are excluded from their policies. Practicing without a license in an industry that requires licensing is excluded from all my policies.

For example, "checking the amp draw on each individual element" is way beyond the SOP and is something that I wouldn't get into. If one is checking the amp draw on the heater, I would hope that one is checking the amp draw for the oven, the cook top, the water heater, etc., etc., etc. Why one and not the other? But then checking the amp draw is something that licensed electricians do, so then I would be intruding into their jurisdiction/area of expertise again, so I don't go there.

As I've advised for almost five years now, sit down with one's insurance advisors and attorneys and devise an inspection and report writing protocol, and then stick with it persistently and consistently until advised otherwise due to case law, legislative law, or insurance claims.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Third installment
Lets talk A/C units not a lot of time consuming efforts here. I perform my first check while making my outside tour as that is where my inspections starts outside.
Check the condenser for lint build up, general appearance record name plate data, Check the size of the breaker at the unit only as I will also be checking the same circuit when I open the dead front on the main panel. I find lots of 60 amp breakers at the unit but will have the proper 30 or 40 amp breaker in the main panel and this is just fine. Check the low voltage wires can not be inside the seal tight with the 220-volt power supply from the disconnect box to the unit unless allowed by AHJ.
Check the size of the freon liquid and suction line at the unit to determine if it is the same size or larger than the MFG’S stub out on the unit, can not be reduced. Pull the access panel and view the condition of wiring to and from the contactor also at the capacitor as they are known to burn they are a simple spade clip and become loose over time. If visible I view the points on the contactor for burn marks. While this panel is removed I determine if there are any holes left open in the frame of the unit that allows mice into the unit they just love to eat wires. If a suction line dryer is installed that tells me that someone has changed out the compressor and I make a mental note of this when determining age. I do not use freon gages unless my gut tells me to which is very infrequent I operate from the Stat like most other inspectors. I have a card that allows me to use gages if you have no card don’t even think about it the fine is more than you will make in 6 months.

I operate heat pumps like any other unit with the exception of the reversing valve I want it to operate in both modes no matter what the outside ambient is and I do this if the outdoor temp is very hot I will turn the unit off at the disconnect, active the stat for the opposite mode return to the unit and turn the disconnect back on and run the unit just long enough to feel the suction line and determine that it is getting warm and then turn the unit off at the disconnect and go back and set the stat to cool and reactivating the disconnect.

I am not going to discuss splits or Delta T here that is your option to take or not to take. When operating the A/C unit from the stat I physically visit the unit again ensuring the fan has the proper rotation have observed many that were not.

Eyes, Ears and touch come into play at this point. If the compressor motor has a broken internal mounting spring you can normally hear it will sound like an iron wheel Tater wagon. If the bearings in the condenser fan motor are bad you can hear this also. The suction line should be cool to cold and the liquid line should be warm to very hot depending on outside ambient.

Some A-coil pans are visible by removing the front cover some are not. I don’t
View every A-coil because of access. I make this determination based on the age
of the unit and the amount of lint in the blower wheel.

Condensate drains very important ensure you know where they are being
discharged to especially on attic installs as this can create you some heart-burn if
clients ceiling gets wet. Attic installs P-Traps, safety pan and secondary drain
or moisture safety shut down switch.
Air flow from the registers floor or ceiling helps me determine if the A-coil needs
to be observed for lint. I try hard to stay away from efficiency due to size of the
unit or to many drops on one trunk line. Common sense should tell you if have a
2-ton unit on a 2500 SQ ft. home it is not going to work.
Guys this is most of what I do sure I missed something

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by rray

About half, maybe more, of what Charley does, is what licensed HVAC techs do here. Since I'm not a licensed HVAC tech, I don't do that. In fact, there severe civil and criminal penalties are possible for practicing as an HVAC tech without a license. Thus, I have to just be a measly little home inspector/property consultant.

Good post.

No doubt, a home inspection by Joe Tedesco would have two of the the three hour inspection devoted to the electrical system (along with 25 pages of his thirty page report).

The SOP provides a sufficient guideline, IMO.

[Charley L. Bottger]

For example, "checking the amp draw on each individual element" is way If one is checking the amp draw on the heater, I would hope that one is checking the amp draw for the oven, the cook top, the water heater, etc., etc., etc. Why one and not the other? But then checking the amp draw is something that licensed electricians do, so then I would be intruding into their jurisdiction/area of expertise again, so I don't go there.

Very simple deduction I can tell you if the cook top is working with out checking amps put your hand on the burner-) Can not tell if all elements are working on an electric furnace without amp meter. Not checking amps checking to see if they are working

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Good post.

No doubt, a home inspection by Joe Tedesco would have two of the the three hour inspection devoted to the electrical system (along with 25 pages of his thirty page report).

The SOP provides a sufficient guideline, IMO.

JB you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Would you care to see an HVAC quote from one of my reports. Probably less than you write trying to cover your A**

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by SOP

2.4. Heating
I. The inspector shall inspect:

A. The heating systems using normal operating controls and describe the energy source and heating method.
B. And report as in need of repair heating systems which do not operate.
C. And report if inspector deemed the heating systems inaccessible


2.5. Cooling
I. The inspector shall inspect:

A. The central cooling equipment using normal operating controls.

First, you describe the system. If it works, report it. If it does not work, write it up. That's about it, according to our standard of practice.



I think RR gives an apt description of the dangers of going beyond the SOP - especially when one is not a licensed HVAC tech.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by cbottger

Very simple deduction I can tell you if the cook top is working with out checking amps put your hand on the burner-) Can not tell if all elements are working on an electric furnace without amp meter. Not checking amps checking to see if they are working

Hmmmmmmm. I'll let you have it, Charley.

But what about the electric water heater. Do you do an amp draw on the two elements there, too?

Just way too much for my comfort level and that of my insurance advisors and attorneys. Again, though, if one is comfortable doing it and has the blessings of one's business advisors, great!

Originally Posted by jbushart

No doubt, a home inspection by Joe Tedesco would have two of the the three hour inspection devoted to the electrical system (along with 25 pages of his thirty page report).

I had a listing agent who uses me regularly call me to do an inspection for the buyers of her listing. Come to find out, the buyers had originally chosen a part-time inspector (whom I know) who does a couple of inspections a month, at $79 during the off season and $99 during tourist season, to pay for his SDG&E bill. He's retired from the military. The report he provided was 17 pages of handwritten script, of which 15 pages was about plumbing. Wanna guess that he was a plumber in the military? His Clients got their money back and hired me to do a $399 inspection.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by cbottger

Very simple deduction I can tell you if the cook top is working with out checking amps put your hand on the burner-) Can not tell if all elements are working on an electric furnace without amp meter. Not checking amps checking to see if they are working

Ah, but, Charley, you can do the same with the furnace or water heater. Does the furnace provide hot air? Yes or no. Does the water heater provide hot water? Yes or no.

[Charley L. Bottger]

But what about the electric water heater. Do you do an amp draw on the two elements there, too

?

Not on a regular basis only if the water temp is to low; again FEEL If it burns me no need for amp meter.-) I leave nothing to chance it either works or it does not and If I have to use a amp meter to determine if it is working as intended so be it. I won't have to consult with my lawyer or my insurance adviser as there is nothing in my reports that states I used an amp meter. I just report the unit was performing as intended or it was not.