Colorado man dies from Radon.

[Nick Gromicko]

Caoimhin:

I didn't say college grads where unbelievable, I said I try not to hire them.

Anyway...

The World Health Organization (WHO):
http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/env/radon/en/

Centers for Disease Control (CDC):
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/brochure/profile_radon.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/clusters/Fallon/radonfaq.htm

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR):
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HEC/CSEM/radon/docs/radon.pdf

The National Academy of Sciences (NAS):
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=5499&page=1

University of Iowa:
http://www.cheec.uiowa.edu/misc/radon.html

But what do they know, they aren't forensic IHs.

[Nick Gromicko]

Oh and this one is a good one: http://dels.nas.edu/nrsb/presentations/sarah_darby.pdf

... a little slow to download though.

Frame # 11 in the aforementioned pdf looks pretty linear to me.

[Caoimhín P. Connell]

Hello Mr. Gromicko:

We have just come full circle. I have already addressed the studies you have referenced. I have even told you what the researchers themselves have to say about their own studies. You desparately want to ignore these facts, and that’s fine. I’m not going to keep saying the same thing for your benefit. If you don’t want to accept what these very researchers say about their own studies, it’s simply no concern of mine.

It's entirely one thing to reference these documents. It is another thing altogether, to read them, understand them, and apply them.

Your membership seems to be very astute. I think they can understand these issues somewhat better.

Cheers,
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
www.forensic-applications.com

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

[Nick Gromicko]

Wow Caoimhin, you just won the award for vaguest post of all time! Congrats!

You were losing being specific, smart retreat.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Mr Connell

You have started to make your point not with fact but by attacking people - NOT GOOD

My background is probably equal to yours or maybe even greater in this area

Here is the question -- Do you think one should know what the alpha radiation level is in ones home so one can say yes or no if one wants to change that level to live there?

Some people do not want their kids to be around second hand smoke even from your cigar (I smoke)

Most of us understand that radiation can help and hurt us depending on how, when, where, how much, how fast etc

I do not think someone is going to make money putting extra Radon into a home to help ones health at this point in time

Get real - It is easy to make it go away and it does not cost a lot of $$ to make it do so

At what level would you want it to not be around for your grad kids???

---- As a side note -- Our Nuclear Subs were cleaner that our homes when I was serving as a reactor operator. Alpha radiation was something that we desired to be very low. (By product of radon)

Radon dials on watches were not allowed on board - All radon painted knobs on radio equipment had to be removed.

No test about long term exposure were conducted -- The rule was NO

Yes, knowledge is how it should be - and not emotion - but a face mask is not a bad thing in a dusty area until all the facts are a little more clear

I want my basement full of clean radon free air


And by the way the reason for the requirement for the low alpha level one our neuclear subs was what???

It might take a little bit of research on that one but if you do not know you should enjoy the answer and the research


rlb

[Caoimhín P. Connell]

Hello Mr. Bennett:

Actually, I think that most of your post actually argues against your self. Here’s how:

“You have started to make your point not with fact but by attacking people - NOT GOOD”

If you believe this, then you haven’t read my posts. I have not attacked anyone, I have tolerated many personal attacks without retributions, and I have not only provided a wealth of facts, I have also provided dozens of references to back them up. Your comment is made in a vacuum without substance.

”My background is probably equal to yours or maybe even greater in this area”

Yet your post here contains so many technical errors that it is patently obvious you have very little actual technical competence in the area. This isn’t an attack (although you will undoubtedly become defensive and view it as one)- rather it is an objective statement backed-up up with facts: Here they are:

You say:
“Radon dials on watches were not allowed on board - All radon painted knobs on radio equipment had to be removed.”

There is no such thing as a “Radon dial.” You made that up. You so lack technical competency in the area of radiation safety that you don’t realize your error. Radon cannot be “painted” on anything. In spite of the training you received in the Navy (and thank you for your service and sacrifice) if you had even the slightest rudimentary training in actual radiation safety, you would have known this. So, here’s your first lesson for the day:

Radon is a gas. Radium is the stuff that was painted on dials. Radium is a solid. Radon is one of the (many) decay chain products of radium.

Lesson Two: (found in the answers to your questions).

“I want my basement full of clean radon free air”

Then you will have to move to a different universe; because EVERY house in the world contains radon. Every house with a radon mitigation system contains radon. If you were versed in radiation safety you would have known this.

“Get real - It is easy to make it go away and it does not cost a lot of $$ to make it do so”

Wrong again – “Get real” indeed – the cost necessary to “get rid” of radon form an house is SOOO expensive, it has never been accomplished in a single house ever. EVERY house with a radon mitigation system contains radon. If you were versed in radiation safety, you would have known this.

“Here is the question -- Do you think one should know what the alpha radiation level is in ones home so one can say yes or no if one wants to change that level to live there?”

Here again, you are very confused. When a radon test is performed in an home pursuant to the EPA protocols, one does NOT know the alpha radiation level in the home (which is something I have discussed in length on this board). Instead, one knows what is called the radon PAEC based on a presumed equilibration ratio.

If you want to know the REAL alpha radiation level in your house, don’t call the CDC, don’t call the EPA, don’t call Nick Gromicko with a goofy little short term test, you will have to call an Health Physicist or an Industrial Hygienist who will come out to you house and will NOT use the EPA protocol and will perform a radiation survey.

“At what level would you want it [radon] to not be around for your grad kids???”


Ignoring the confusing syntax of the question for a moment; I understand the question. For a start, what's the specified ER? In any event, the better answer is also a question: At what level do the risk assessments show harm to occur? (i.e.. what is the LOEL?)

“And by the way the reason for the requirement for the low alpha level one our neuclear subs was what???”

The answer to this question is that the US Nukes were powered by U235 (not radon, Mr.Bennet); U235 is a massive alpha emitter. How do you quickly determine if you have a U235 leak or leak in the system? Why, measure the alpha concentration (Didja ever wonder why the US Navy didn't use the EPA radon protocol to measrue radon on their ships? Now THAT's a funny thought!)

By the way – if you are afraid of alpha radiation, then for heavens sake, stay away from milk, (1,200 pCi/L), beer (800 pCi/L), and bananas give off so much radiation that alarms were once triggered at the Rocky Flats plant by a banana coming out of the facility in a worker's lunch box! Indeed, just looking at K40 (such as bananas), most Americans will consume about 3 or 4g of naturally occurring potassium each day. This radioactive material calculates to about 2,100 pCi of K40 which means (as pointed out by our good friend, Mr. Newman) a little over 80 radioactive decays each second. Mr. Bennett, do you realize that the 150 some-odd grams of potassium in a normal healthy US man contains about 4,400 Bq (120,000 pCi) of K40; that equates to about 4,400 disintegrations per second. And that’s just from the potassium! And that occurs in our bodies each second we live! At least 98 % of these disintegrations take place within body cells, and are potentially capable of altering the cell's DNA. So why doesn’t that happen and why aren’t we all dead from cancer by the age of five? Ask Mr. Gromicko - he'll tell you we are (objective facts notwithstanding).

Hmmm…. Read my previous posts, and you will find the answer.

“Most of us understand that radiation can help and hurt us depending on how, when, where, how much, how fast etc”

By this comment, you demonstrate that unquestionably, you are far more versed in radiation physicis and safety than Mr. Gromicko.


Finally, regarding the rest of your comments – I find the following remarkably confused non sequiturs of which I am not sure how to respond:

I do not think someone is going to make money putting extra Radon into a home to help ones health at this point in time


No test about long term exposure were conducted -- The rule was NO


Yes, knowledge is how it should be - and not emotion - but a face mask is not a bad thing in a dusty area until all the facts are a little more clear

(By the way, did you know that the dust in the air decreases the risk from elevated radon expsoures? Hmmmm... go figure. Know why?)

Some people do not want their kids to be around second hand smoke even from your cigar (I smoke)

The mind boggles.

Alas - I think the leader was correct "Colorado man dies from radon" The frustration of the discussion pushed him to the bottle, and the excessive whiskey collapsed his liver - and he died from radon.

Cheers!
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
www.forensic-applications.com


(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

[Nick Gromicko]

Yes, I do know why "dust in the air decreases the risk from elevated radon." It is because the dangerous unattached fraction decreases in a dusty room.

Anyway Caoimhin... is this your personal website? http://members.aol.com/Naimhling/frames.html

I should warn you that one of the reasons the data from Uranium miners is skewed is that they likely breathed more heavily during the manual labor of mining than homeowners... so be careful with those bag pipes http://members.aol.com/Naimhling/frames.html Don't blow too hard.

[ldapkus]

Where's the skirt Rambo???

"nany nany boo boo, stick your head in doo doo".

[jschulte]

Nick and Linas, you forgot to end your posts with "nany nany boo boo, stick your head in doo doo".

[ldapkus]

Originally Posted by jschulte

Nick and Linas, you forgot to end your posts with "nany nany boo boo, stick your head in doo doo".

I changed it Jeffery. Does that suite you now?? Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

[Raymond N. Newman]

Attached you will find the papers which I mentioned above

http://www.housxam.com\studies\WISMU...th Physics.pdf
http://www.housxam.com\studies\Darby2242.pdf
http://www.housxam.com\studies\Kreuzer2073.pdf

My impression is that there is ample evidence of an increased risk of lung cancer from radon.

[James H. Bushart]

When I was a kid, my pal (Billie Raydon) killed my goldfish by pouring his milkshake into the fishbowl. I can personally attest to the truth that "Raydon kills" and, perhaps, he has since matured into a serial killer and indeed did cap a poor guy in Colorado.

So...there.

[Raymond N. Newman]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I can personally attest to the truth that "Raydon kills" ...
So...there.

James, I am so glad for you that you where able to share this unfortunate event with someone else after such a long time. I truly hope it eased your inner burden and that the important healing process can begin.