Growth in crawl space

[Erby Crofutt]

Here's what I tell em about mold:

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What appears to be mold or mildew is present. The identification of the organism(s) is beyond the scope of this home inspection. That means I think its mold but the only way to tell for sure is to test it. Testing is generally considered a waste of money by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), unless the mold is causing health problems.

See attachment " A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture & Your Home" from the EPA.

My basic recommendation is: The moisture source needs to be fixed and the mold needs to be cleaned up. Who does that is your decision. I, along with the EPA and the CDC, do not recommend any testing. Review the below information and recommendations before deciding on how to deal with this issue.

If, after reviewing the below information, you have additional questions or want further investigation, I recommend that you contact a Certified Industrial Hygienist, usually listed in the yellow pages under "Industrial Hygiene Consultants" to determine if there exists an ongoing climate for incubation or microbial contamination and to obtain their recommendations for dealing with the issue.

There is a lot of controversy over the issue of mold and mold testing.

The EPA does not recommend measuring airborne fungal levels. The EPA publication "A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture, and Your Home" states "Is sampling for mold needed? In most cases, if visible mold growth is present, sampling is unnecessary."

The EPA also says “You should be aware that although a substance may look like mold, a positive determination of whether it is mold or not can be made only by an expert and may require laboratory analysis for final confirmation. For about $50, some microbiology laboratories can tell you whether a sample sent to them on a clear strip of sticky household tape is mold or simply a substance that resembles it.”
(http://www.epa.gov/mold/moldresources.html )

The CDC says “You do not need to know the type of mold growing in your home, and CDC does not recommend or perform routine sampling for molds. No matter what type of mold is present, you should remove it. Since the effect of mold on people can vary greatly, either because of the amount or type of mold, you can not rely on sampling and culturing to know your health risk. Also, good sampling for mold can be expensive, and standards for judging what is and what is not an acceptable quantity of mold have not been set. The best practice is to remove the mold and work to prevent future growth.”
( http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm )

Money spent on testing is not available for cleanup.

Mold, mildew, fungus and other toxic organisms commonly occur in areas that show evidence of, or have the potential for, leaking, moisture intrusion and/or inadequate ventilation. Any area or item exhibiting such conditions can be a health hazard to some people.

I recommend that information from the following sources be reviewed prior to spending any money on mold testing. You may want to identify and review other sources of information.

The EPA web site at
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/moldguide.html
provides a document titled ""A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture, and Your Home"

The CDC website at:
http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm

Various articles on the Building Science Corporation web site at:
http://www.buildingscience.com
Click on the link "Learn More about Mold".

The New York City Department of Health Web Site at:
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/doh/home.html
Use the search function for mold.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by lcapaul

Paul,

Why is it important to know the TYPE of mold present, if there is mold it needs to be remediated and the cause.....moisture.....eliminated and the damage repaired, why not just refer the identification to those who do the repairs/remediation?

Who says I don't...?...I can tell someone that mold needs to be removed until I am blue in the face, but many times they want to know what type of mold it is.....can we agree that if the mold was "stackee" or Black Mold that a client might want to know that......what they do with it is their choice after that.

It is my understanding that not all molds will cause physical effects or certain conditions.....while some simply cause effects to the structure...either way they are as I stated refered to in the report....and again testing is the clients choice.....if I see microbial growth i explain what it possibly could be coming from and the importance of that being resolved.....and most obvioulsly that the microbial growth should be removed....provided it is microbial growth...since I am not a LAB.......I will not make that final call except to state it appears to be Microbial Growth......the only way to 100% be determined in MY mind is sampling.....but AGAIN..thats the clients choice.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Paul I have considered offering tests on the electricity supplied to the house, you know, hydro, coal, nuclear (Nukulaar) gas, etc. It is my understanding that while not all EMF's effects everyone, some EMF's , (depending on the generating source mind you), effect some people.

I believe I will offer an EMI accreditation, which in the near future will change $$$, but for you my friend, a couple of Krugerrands to my PO BOX and your in.

Wait till you see the EMI 8-Balls and Dowsers used in testing.

[ldapkus]

Mold can aggravate pre existing health problems, such as asthma, in humans. They would probably like to know if their future home has a "mold problem" which could make their lives miserable. There are individuals in the field of Home Inspection who offer mold sampling when they come across "suspicious microbial organic growth". The lab makes the confirmation if it is mold and they are insured for $ 1,000,000 per sample. So I would gladly offer mold sampling services if it would benefit my client. (and me)

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol........man you kill me..........I do have EMF concerns...lol...but I wont go into that......I can only talk about them on the 4th tuesday of the 3rd month of the year of the DOG.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Brian...I have to ask..of my posts in regards to mold do you read what is of concern or are you concerned in what you read...lol......can you actually READ....I guess I should have asked that first...

[Brian E. Kelly]

Test for mold if you want, fine with me. Generaly a waste of money, but so is Starbucks.

I'll be looking for the gold coins Paul.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol.......yeah and cigarettes KILL also.....but you can't tell that to a diehard smoker........gotta do what ya gotta do....lol...I just provide information and try to feed the family along the way.

[lcapaul]

Who says I don't...?...I can tell someone that mold needs to be removed until I am blue in the face, but many times they want to know what type of mold it is.....can we agree that if the mold was "stackee" or Black Mold that a client might want to know that......what they do with it is their choice after that.

Paul,
Why assume the responsibility of testing and identification when someone else will end up doing the repairs or remediation? I understand what you are doing and don't really see anything wrong with it, I did the same thing a couple of times, but its not worth the liability of defending testing proctices that may be called into question in court.

As far a Stakee or Black mold, there is no evidence that it is really tied to any health problems. Here's an interesting article I found while playing around on the ProLab site:

THE GROWING HAZARD OF MOLD LITIGATION
http://www.heartland.org/pdf/12799.pdf

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Lewis,

Thanks....actually my education came from PMII and they have a different take on Mold and so on than I would guess Pro Labs does.

The potential reactions and conditions from a toxic type mold in some people could be deadly...but alas......remember I do not TEST it unless I am asked to do so.....for the reason of knowing what type it is...nothing more...

I dont do remedial work.....and always tell them the mold should be removed depending on the 3 levels it is in size.....but thats about where I stop as this in my opinion does not open me up for liable....simply reporting the presence of it......and letting them know......and if they wish to have a sample I will pull one...and let the lab do the testing.....but i strongly inform them this is to simply find the type of mold......but they clearly are told to fix the cause and remove the problem......either in getting air to the area in added circulation or stopping the moisture getting to the area in question.

keep in mind......I am not a MOLD expert........just opinions is all.

[lcapaul]

Thanks....actually my education came from PMII and they have a different take on Mold and so on than I would guess Pro Labs does.

Paul,
I'm not ProLab either, my training came from ESA, my test equipment is from ProLab though. I have been asked recently to do testing to Identify the type of Mold, but I don't carry my equipment with any more. I'd thought about coming up with a Mold contract that states that I am doing the Testing at the request of the client after with the understanding that I am trained only in Mold Sampling using the methods and procedures approved and taught by ESA and that the client has been informed of the importance of having the mold removed and the cause of the excessive moisture and any damage it has caused repaired and that ESA sampling methods may or may not meet the standards of an Industrial Hygentist, but that got put on my to do list, I am trying to find a more advanced Allergen course than the one I have taken from ESA, I'm never comfortable with just having the minimum knowledge to offer a service.

I have no problem with HI's offering Mold Inspections as long as they don't hype the need for the inspection using "Fear Factors" and media distortions, you can sell anybody anything if you can scare them enough, Nick tried that the other day when he tried to convince us that Every Home Required a Mold Inspection

[Paul W. Abernathy]

ahhh..gotcha........in my mind the condition needs to warrant it.....but then again when MY mind says it is a problem...chances are it REALLY needs attention...lol

I am OFF to my comfort zone...lol...VOLTAGE !

[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

ahhh..gotcha........in my mind the condition needs to warrant it.....but then again when MY mind says it is a problem...chances are it REALLY needs attention...lol

I am OFF to my comfort zone...lol...VOLTAGE !

Good, I'm tired of this thread, I'll go to electrical and see what you can teach me today, you've taught me a lot over the past year or so
Thanks

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol....Electrical Topics are MORE fun than MOLD anyway...thehehe

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Also..just to be clear.....IF i have in my crawlspace what Todd has in his office space.....or what NICK has in his office space......and I was in the crawl space.....their would be growth in that crawspace....WITHOUT microbial growth being present.........